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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is pubic hair a feminist issue?

193 replies

Pipbin · 03/04/2015 18:57

Sorry if this has been done to death already.

Following on from another thread elsewhere there seems to be a divide between women who do and don't remove their pubic hair.

Some women who don't do it see it as another form of control that men have over women. That women are removing all their hair to please men and because it is now being normalised.
The women who do do it do so because they want to and they like it.

So, is it a feminist issue? Should women be able to do what they chose or are women doing it because it's another form of control even if they are doing it through their own free choice?

OP posts:
Karoleann · 03/04/2015 22:19

Legs and armpits just look better without hair. Bikinis and swimming costume look better without pubic hair escaping from their sides.

Just like head hair looks better when you cut and brush it and eyebrows look better when they don't extend in a mono-brow across your forehead.

I do think no pubic hear looks odd on grown women though, but there's much bigger things to worry about, its probably one of those things that goes full circle and full bushes will be in fashion in a few years time.

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 22:21

In the abstract, UM, do you think society is neutral on the subject of the removal of women's pubic hair? Pro its removal? Anti its removal?

I absolutely do not doubt that you made your own decision with respect to pubic hair and that you have the physical sensations you describe (and as most of us shave legs even if we don't wax, increased sensitivity after hair removal is a pretty familiar feeling).

We all make decisions in the context of society (global, national, local, family, friendship group, media etc etc) - very few women in the UK have shaven heads, for example. It doesn't make women weaker than men, or some women weaker than others, or whatever, society just can't be avoided.

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 22:22

"Bikinis and swimming costume look better without pubic hair escaping from their sides. "

Then why not design the costumes with shorts? or skirts? why change the women not the outfit?

UnsolvedMystery · 03/04/2015 22:23

behaviour has clearly been influenced. It just wasn't an issue 20 or 30 years ago. It is one more thing for women to worry about and to pay to remove something that wasn't a problem in the first place. Also, do women need to look like young girls, it feels wrong

I wasn't influenced when I first did it 30 years ago. I had never seen a shaved fanny - I'd only ever seen my mum's full bush.
I don't pay much to remove it - razor blades & shaving oil.
It's not a problem, it's just a preference.
There is nothing I could do to my approaching 50 year old body that has given birth twice, that would make me look like a young girl.

Original poster
Pipbin · 03/04/2015 22:24

Also, do women need to look like young girls, it feels wrong

I don't know that it's to look like a young girl. I understood that it became popular in porn because it made it easier to see what is going on.
From porn it filtered down into everyday life.

I don't think that any women who does this does so because they want to look like a porn star or a ten year old. They do it because they like it.

But I think we all need to know that ALL fashion in all aspects of life is influenced by many things and what we like is generally not exactly a free choice even if we think it is.

OP posts:
TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/04/2015 22:24

I think the problem with this whole discussion is it is inherently circular because it exemplifies the paradox between:

  • women should have full bodily autonomy and make all decisions regarding it.
  • no decisions are made in a vacuum and there's a full gamut of patriarchal and capitalist pressures in play to police those decisions

The only way forward is to put down the immac / fanny brush and start smashing the patriarchy so we all, men & women, can be as hirsute or as bald as we please with no tedious gender politics getting in the way.

Seriously, it's Saturday night, I've had one glass of wine and I have no other answers.

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 22:25

"Legs and armpits just look better without hair."

Is this also true for men?

Incidentally, I agree with you! But I also know I rarely or never see any pictures or RL women with hairy legs and armpits, so my calibration is set to hairless.

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:25

Well yes I think that some people will just do stuff without prompting. Although I suppose with something like this the "hair removal" concept has to be there in the first place.

Like I have always shaved my toes and fingers. And feet. When I started shaving my legs (as a girl) I also did my toes, feet and fingers. It seemed like the thing to do, for some reason. Years later I found out that this was not in fact the norm Grin & it's not that I was self conscious of it, it's blonde and although blondes are fairly hairy it's usually fine and of course you can't really see it if skin is pale. So I can say yes I did that right off my own bat. I still do it, on the occasions I get round to shaving my legs. I'm not even sure why. I just prefer it. I've always done it.

So I mean yes people will do stuff, there's usually a related prompt I guess though, and then some experimentation. But certainly the explosion in female pube grooming is a fashion, a cultural change, rather than loads of women and girls all individually thinking "hmm I'm going to try that" in much larger numbers than they ever did before.

I do think it's a feminist issue personally, but probably put it in with a whole bunch of other grooming practices, and do wonder what on earth will be next...

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 22:27
Grin
PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:28

YY I find it interesting that women's legs look and feel better hairless and men's don't. Although maybe increasingly they do IYSWIM.

Women should be soft smooth toned hairfree
Men should be hard planes muscle and also to an extent hairfree
Everyone should have a healthy "outdoorsy" glow not too white definitely not orange
etc etc etc

Who was it who said on here there was an idea that a lot of women's progress in the workplace had happened since hair dye became freely cheaply available? I do wonder. I work with NO grey women.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/04/2015 22:30

"Bikinis and swimming costume look better without pubic hair escaping from their sides. "

Oh, I don't know.

GraysAnalogy · 03/04/2015 22:32

This is a great thread.

To be honest I find the backlash for removing my hair (as I wish, I like it) from some feminists worse than the stigma I'd face if I let it grow, let it grow...

I think that's a major issue.

Original poster
Pipbin · 03/04/2015 22:33

Seriously, it's Saturday night, I've had one glass of wine and I have no other answers

I thought it was Friday. See it's the bastard patriarchy again, confusing us about the days. Easter Grin

OP posts:
PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:34

I was going to say, doesn't it get up your flaps a bit? The swimming costume. The pubes act as a good cushioning I'd have thought, for a sleeker profile.

I have heard that young men on the beach enjoy spotting which women take it off and which don't. No idea where I heard that though Confused

I am now going to click the link in the post above....

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/04/2015 22:34

Ha, I noticed that. I've a sick BF baby and have had no sleep for days. I don't know why I'm trying my luck on the intellectual minefield that is FWR chat!

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:35

That's a bloke though isn't it?

I like that bit of hair on men that leads down to their cocks from their bellies, I'd be sad if they started getting rid of it. I find it sexy. That was a fairly random thought BTW.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/04/2015 22:36

My last post was to the OP who noticed I got the day wrong.

Pilchard it's the Black Crowes album cover which shows a bikini bottom with a few pubes coming out.

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:37

Oh YY I clicked it tondelayo but isn't that a man in the bikini bottoms?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/04/2015 22:39

Na, it's a lady. That's how much we've been brainwashed - hair = masculine.

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 22:39

I don't think there's much to be gained in criticising individuals for personal grooming decisions, whatever they may be. Doesn't mean it's not worth discussing the topic in general.

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:41

Really kinds looks like a bloke to me... It's possible I have a one track mind.

If it's just me that can see that I'm going to need to go and hide somewhere Grin

Fadingmemory · 03/04/2015 22:42

I shave my armpits because it helps me not to have BO. That is not because of what men think but because I don't like BO. Rarely shave my legs because I can't be bothered. Don't shave my pubic hair for the same reason. Too much fuss about what grows naturally.

Why would I teach my children that what really matters is personality, empathy, sympathy, kindness, then concentrate a lot of effort on looking right?

I know men wouldn't like my hairy legs and pubic area but I don't care. I am too busy having a good life and a great deal of fun to give much thought to them.

UnsolvedMystery · 03/04/2015 22:43

Yonic, it is a current fashion. That undoubtedly puts pressure on some women, as it also does some men. But that doesn't mean that all women who do it feel any pressure to conform and it doesn't mean that women are somehow wrong or should be criticised for their choices.

I don't disagree that it is a feminist issue, but I think the notion that there is a feminist way to behave, is equally as bad for women as life before feminism.

Hakluyt · 03/04/2015 22:47

"I don't disagree that it is a feminist issue, but I think the notion that there is a feminist way to behave, is equally as bad for women as life before feminism"

So- do you think there isn't a feminist way to behave?

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 22:48

I do think that women not engaging with all the "stuff" - just not doing it - whether for feminist reasons or not - and only if they feel comfortable with it obv - does help reduce the pressure across the board though.

So while doing it (whatever "it" is) needn't mean you have to have your feminist card taken away, not doing it is for sure a feminist action (even if it's not intended to be, I guess).