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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is pubic hair a feminist issue?

193 replies

Pipbin · 03/04/2015 18:57

Sorry if this has been done to death already.

Following on from another thread elsewhere there seems to be a divide between women who do and don't remove their pubic hair.

Some women who don't do it see it as another form of control that men have over women. That women are removing all their hair to please men and because it is now being normalised.
The women who do do it do so because they want to and they like it.

So, is it a feminist issue? Should women be able to do what they chose or are women doing it because it's another form of control even if they are doing it through their own free choice?

OP posts:
PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 23:25

I think there needs to be a "critical mass" for things like that to change?

Like that browning stuff you smear on your legs a few years ago everyone was saying "ooh your legs are white why don't you do X" and everyone was buying gallons it and the people who didn't do it were considered rather "brave" - this was in the microcosm of my workplace and friendship group at the time. But it didn't take hold properly and now it's seen as entirely optional - put browny stuff on your legs if you like but if they're white hey that's what colour they are no worries.

Shaving legs + pits is way more entrenched than that though. People are removing more hair, not less, has been the trend for years and years.

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 23:26

Any of you remember when Eurythmics were going to perform Sweet Dreams in the US and there was a big hoo ha about them letting a man dressed like that perform!

PuffinsAreFictitious · 03/04/2015 23:26

If all women decided not to shave their legs in the summer at the same time then we could all go hairy. But no one wants to be the one to take the first step.

You could always hang out with me then.

Media manufactured beauty standards are not something I aspire to. Just think how attractive you'll all look beside me Easter Grin Easter Wink

GraysAnalogy · 03/04/2015 23:27

I remember when I was one of few who didn't tan or anything. I got the whole 'brave' thing. Ridiculous

Now thought they apparently admire me for 'being able to be pale'.

It's sad when women feel they can't have their natural skin colour!

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 23:28

Although having said that I can't find it on google so maybe it's a total lie I dreamt up!

Original poster
Pipbin · 03/04/2015 23:31

It's nothing against the billions of pounds spent marketing hair removal products, cosmetics, cosmetic surgery, hair dye etc. If you want to talk about pressure on women, that's where you start.
DH and I were talking about this the other day (in the make up department in John Lewis). If every women woke up tomorrow and thought 'y'know what, I'm happy with how I look. You can keep all your beauty products' the economy would go to shit.

OP posts:
PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 23:31

It's the thing isn't it "pale skin is coming back" "sun kissed skin is in" "hourglass figures are on trend for blah" "this season's shape is long and lean" and etc etc etc

These are really fundamental things that it is pretty fucking hard to change! They shouldn't be included in the same breath as "grey coats are great this winter"!!!

Original poster
Pipbin · 03/04/2015 23:32

Now thought they apparently admire me for 'being able to be pale'.

they'd love me. I am so pale that strangers stop me in the street and ask if I'm OK!

OP posts:
PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 23:34

YY it's commercial industry (who do not have our best interests at heart) in toxic harmony with the media (who also do not have our interests at heart).

It's not about individual men or women or even pressure from them generally, it's the films, magazines, adverts etc etc that shape our ideas because that is their aim and they are horrifyingly good at it. And then once the idea has taken hold then yes groups and individuals apply pressure both subtely and less so, but the problem is big business.

Original poster
Pipbin · 03/04/2015 23:34

But Pilchard that is just it. The same people who decide what this seasons colour is and what is 'on trend' are the same people who decide that big boobs or 'hour glass figures' are OK now.

OP posts:
UnsolvedMystery · 03/04/2015 23:34

If all women decided not to shave their legs in the summer at the same time then we could all go hairy. But no one wants to be the one to take the first step
But I don't want to. I like the feel of my shaved legs. It's not about how they look, my hair is so fair it's barely visible and my skin is as white as it comes - no fake tanning going on here.

PilchardPrincess · 03/04/2015 23:36

Yes and I don't mind them saying it about tights, but to call different body shapes "fashionable" or not is just so outrageously wrong!

Always makes me think of that film with Julie Andrews where she's a flapper and she's annoyed with her boobs because she isn't flat chested enough to let her long strings of beads hang right!

GraysAnalogy · 03/04/2015 23:39

It's shockingg that printing it in a few magazines makes it true.

The sheer propaganda we're fed. How just one article can spur the onset of severe changes.

Witchofthenorth · 03/04/2015 23:39

I don't deny that there is pressure to look a certain way and that we are influenced by what goes on around us. Not at all, but for me personally, choosing to shave my bits is personal preference, just the se as I prefer to use tampons because I don't like the way sanitary towels feel. And that isn't influenced by outside advertising, lord knows there is enough adverts telling is how much liquid a sanitary towel can hold and how "fresh" they feel.

I still want equality. I don't want to be judged by women (or men for that matter) on my personal grooming habits...they are my choice on how I like to feel.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 03/04/2015 23:40

Yes but it's about giving the 'illusion of long and lean' / hourglass etc - so you need to buy spanx, wide belts, shaping tights, wonderbras etc.

Witchofthenorth · 03/04/2015 23:42

Oops...thread has moved on a bit...sorry Blush

StillLostAtTheStation · 04/04/2015 00:23

If all women decided not to shave their legs in the summer at the same time then we could all go hairy. But no one wants to be the one to take the first step

Because I really don't want to. I like the feel of newly shaved skin too. And as for cost?a pack of Boots own brand disposable razers and whatever soap happens to be in the bathroom.

GraysAnalogy · 04/04/2015 00:29

I think that's the thing. For some women it may be that it's expevted of them which needs to stop, but for some of us it's because lo and behold we prefer it.

StillLostAtTheStation · 04/04/2015 00:49

I'm a bit sceptical about exactly how much pressure magazines really exert.

I love clothes and dressing up. I've had some very patronising comments made on here if I mention that but despite being a complete airhead I never buy women's magazines. I only see them occasionally at the hairdressers and I'm stunned by how silly and irrelevant and repetitive and interchangeable they are. Despite my being someone who puts a lot of stock in external appearance and has cash to spend they don't interest me at all. If even I'm not influenced does any woman take them seriously?

Postchildrenpregranny · 04/04/2015 00:57

Have shaved legs and armpits since my teens . I have very dark hair -still dark there, but not on my head. How odd . I freely admit to preferring the look of them that way . I suspect DH does too . Will ask him . Have tidied up my bikini line in the past , before foreign holidays, but it would never have occured to me to shave my pubic hair. Because no one but me and DH (nearly 35 year relationship) really sees it ? Too uncomfortable when it grows back? And the thought of waxing-eew . Or being waxed-even worse. I'd be mortified . I was once shaved for a gynaecological op (years ago) and remember it being horrible when it grew back.
I am going to survey my age 55+ friends to see if any them do/have in the past.Oddly enough, it's never come up in conversation....
And might ask my DDs(29 and 25 ) if they and their friends do .I think probably not, though they do their legs and pits . And DD1 has POCS and has had laser treatment on her face, so is 'conscious' of hair. She would definitely describe herself as a feminist. Wonder if she sees it as an issue .
Wasn't it how men knew a girl's hair was its natural colour-that they matched ? (Collar and cuffs it used to be called) Suppose no one cares about that now .
Must admit I've never liked hairy backs on men . But wouldnt expect it to be removed .

ChunkyPickle · 04/04/2015 08:35

Post - your last is the key thing that causes my indignance with DP.

Since having (well, a bit before) DS2 I've stopped shaving anywhere - I just don't have any time to do so (my washing is all done with company, and the last thing I want is either child managing to get hold of a razor and shaving random bits of themselves). DP has mentioned this, with a wrinkled nose, and made noises about being unhygienic. Reader, there is probably only about a square foot of hairless skin on his entire body, the shedding is unbelievable, and yet I deal without the slightest tut.

Hakluyt · 04/04/2015 08:59

Several people have said that women shouldn't be questioned on their decisions- but surely a thread like this is one place where they can be? Or if they don't to be, then maybe not come on the thread?

Because I really, really want to know why people think that removing your pubic hair became "normal" in such a short time. Yes, there will be some women presumably, who have decided to do it entirely in a vacuum, with no external influences at all. But that doesn't explain why, in the space of a few years it went from a niche thing to normal. Why suddenly you have people worrying about what their midwife will think of them if they are hairy in the delivery room, and men wrinkling their noses and talking about it being "unhygienic".

It's fine to say " I do it because I like it". But what made you do it in the first place?

GraysAnalogy · 04/04/2015 10:17

I did it as soon as I got my first pubic hair because I didn't like it being there.

Sorry TMI but there you go Blush

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 04/04/2015 10:40

StillLost - brands spend millions of pounds advertising their products in women's magazines and millions more on PR - celebrity endorsements, press junkets, stunts etc. They analyse the readership demographics, market research their ads, measure sales uplift and brand awareness and have to show return on investment to their board and shareholders. These are all intelligent people who have lots of tools and data showing whether what they do influences consumer behaviour. And makes money.

Everyone thinks advertising and PR doesn't influence them, that they make their own decisions in their own bubble with true independence of thought. But it's nonsense really - nobody woke up one morning and thought they really ought to be drinking vitamin water, using a serum, and knowing who Kim Kardashian is.

Women's magazines are probably the least relevant media versus product placement, social media and celebrity ambassadors but there are still hundreds of them, still profitable and still influential.

alexpolistigers · 04/04/2015 11:05

If all women decided not to shave their legs in the summer at the same time then we could all go hairy. But no one wants to be the one to take the first step

Well, I have taken the step. Come and stand next to me in summer if you like I am dark haired, and my body hair is quite obvious.

I agree with lots of what Tondelayo has said. We are all affected by advertising. It doesn't just appear in women's magazines. It's on television, on billboards, on buses, at train stations, it is everywhere. And it is not just in the form of "Buy X hair removing product". It is also through pictures of other things, pictures of totally hairless celebrities, the fact that we never see (for example) armpit hair on TV or in newspapers except in order to ridicule. And so on.