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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Changes in how rape will be investigated- about time!

590 replies

AWholeLottaNosy · 28/01/2015 22:05

I just read this and I was really pleased. It's about time rape was investigated and prosecuted differently considering the appalling rape conviction rate we have in this country. Imagine there will be an outcry from all the MRAs, but, I think it's very good news...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11375667/Men-must-prove-a-woman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html

OP posts:
TheSubjugatedDad · 29/01/2015 23:09

Scallops. Nobody is abusing me. I've never thought they were. But I've seen lots of other abuse towards posters on this forum, and I don't like it. That's all. I've been treated fine.

YonicScrewdriver · 29/01/2015 23:11

" But I've seen lots of other abuse towards posters on this forum, and I don't like it. "

I haven't seen this. Please do report it, personal attacks breach guidelines.

cailindana · 29/01/2015 23:13

SD, just so I'm clear, you don't think it's right for people to bring up the 'what about false accusations' argument but you're defending people who do exactly that? Why? In case we hurt their feelings?

TheSubjugatedDad · 29/01/2015 23:15

Cailindana. I don't think anyone should be abused. But the reason I was defending them is more so because of the nature of the responses, it's all "rape apologist!" stuff. These posts, whilst insensitive, have a genuine motive that I went on to explain.

cailindana · 29/01/2015 23:19

You have to admit there is some irony in a man coming on a forum to tell women, many of whom are survivors of rape, how they should behave when faced with an argument that improving investigation of rape might hypothetically affect some men.

TheSubjugatedDad · 29/01/2015 23:20

Yonic. To answer the questions to asked on the last page.

I actually think the guidance is a good thing in that it is just common sense to ask the defendant why they thought they had consent, and any decent man who's not a rapist should easily be able to explain why he thought he had consent.

I think there are a few issues with it that would need some caution, but I'm not keen on opening up the debate in that direction on a forum frequented by rape victims. As i said, I think it's insensitive. I'd be happy to explain by private message or whatever though.

DirtyPigeon · 29/01/2015 23:21

I do kinda see where TheSubjugatedDad is coming from. He is right about what he says about our justice system. The prosecution does have to make the case against the accused, and the accused has the right to remain silent. That's the problem with consent as it is currently framed as the essence of a crime.

Doesn't seem to pose a problem with theft cases, though. You know, where the victim says it was theft and the accused claims it was a gift. What happens in those cases? Does the defendant put up a defence outlining why they thought it was a gift?

(at the risk of the theft analogy derailing and undermining)

None of this is very complicated providing you are not shit at sex. Or a rapist.

TheSubjugatedDad · 29/01/2015 23:22

Cailindana, ironic or not, I'm just telling people that I don't think it's very nice to be so abusive to posters who disagree. You do not own this forum, and have only as much right to be here as anyone else, so surely posts should not be abusive?

The top post on this page, by AWholeLottaNosy is a prime example. Reported, by the way.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 29/01/2015 23:23

Nosy, Scallops, Yonic, Cailin... It's fine, don't worry your pretty heads. Women lie, rape myths don't exist and the men who bring up and almost always inflate the numbers of so called false accusations are doing it from the best of intentions. Not just because they are goady, rape apologist fuckheads.

cailindana · 29/01/2015 23:23

It must be so nice to be all theoretical about rape, to only concern yourself with the philosophical and legal implications of it and to be able to wag your finger at victims to tell them to worry about the poor hypothetical men who might maybe perhaps have to answer some tough questions.

cailindana · 29/01/2015 23:24

Btw SD I've never been abusive.

scallopsrgreat · 29/01/2015 23:25

No you haven't SubjugatedDad (I also hate that username). The vast vast majority of abuse comes from trolls. But thank you for coming along and telling us how we should behave. 'Women know your place'. Arguing our point and disagreeing with other posters clearly is not our place.

But I'm sure those whose corner you are fighting are grateful. It's not as if they haven't got the rest of the internet to peddle their myths and get the reassurance they crave that they can still carry on sticking their dicks into women. They only come on here because they think they can put those pesky feminists in their place.

Oh and I think I can safely talk for all women on here that they won't want to engage in private messages with you. Because that sounds incredibly creepy.

scallopsrgreat · 29/01/2015 23:29

It's the old 'Devils Advocate' position isn't it, Cailin. A position taken by people who are not actually suffering or experiencing (and probably never will) the discrimination and unfairness being discussed.

TheSubjugatedDad · 29/01/2015 23:31

Asking people not to be abusive to others is telling women to know their place? What?

scallopsrgreat · 29/01/2015 23:32

No telling us we are being abusive when we aren't, is women know your place.

cailindana · 29/01/2015 23:36

SD you're saying to rape victims 'think about how this might affect a small, hypothetical percentage of men'
And when those rape victims react with understandable annoyance you say 'now now that's not right.'
So you're saying we must be concerned about justice for men (not ourselves) and we must not be angry about that?
If that's not 'know your place' what is?

YonicScrewdriver · 29/01/2015 23:37

SD, I would prefer not to discuss on PM. However, if you would like to start a thread on In The News, that might be a good place?

PuffinsAreFictitious · 29/01/2015 23:38

Enough!

I've had enough of men toddling along and telling women how to think about rape, how to frame their discussions.

Enough of men telling women that they should be fighting this thing over here and not worrying about that thing over there. Especially when that thing over there has happened to almost every single woman I know.

Enough already.

Just report the more outlandish rape myths and move on. In this case, engaging with those who have to bring up the same tired old shit about a subject they know precisely nothing about is harmful to women.

scallopsrgreat · 29/01/2015 23:40

Cailin has explained it much better than me. You are shutting down women's voices and wanting us to behave in a way you see appropriate when we are discussing our experiences and matters that directly affect us.

scallopsrgreat · 29/01/2015 23:42
Original poster
AWholeLottaNosy · 29/01/2015 23:43

SD Report me all you want. As a rape victim myself, I really don't care what you think.

My rapist, who raped me when I was 16, told me he'd kill me if I told anyone. My parents would have blamed me, as I went to his flat, in the middle of the day and I was too scared to report it. He was put in prison a few years later for raping a 13 year old girl. I lost my virginity to this man, couldn't bear to go near men for 2 years after, became promiscuous, have never had a healthy relationship and am now nearly 50. Rape destroys lives and if these proposals make even a few potential rapists think twice,as they know they will have to pay for their actions, then I am glad. Don't you dare tell me what to think as you will never have to go through what I ( and thousands of women and girls ) have.

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 29/01/2015 23:44

Night all! Another day, another doodle x

cailindana · 29/01/2015 23:44

I might wander onto another thread and discuss dads who only have fortnightly access to their children. I might say, oh but there's every chance that dads who only get fortnightly access were abusive in some way, I mean, why else would it happen?
I might then tell you exactly how you're supposed to react to that SD.
Any anger will be met with 'hey don't be abusive, it does happen you know,'

See how you like me having a nasty baseless theoretical discussion about your life.

YonicScrewdriver · 29/01/2015 23:45

Sorry, nosy, cross post

Flowers for you x

TheSubjugatedDad · 29/01/2015 23:46

Cailindana. No, I'm not saying you should care about men at all, or for the hypothetical men in the examples earlier posters gave, or anything at all. I don't see how you think I am.

I've just said, 1) It's inaccurate to write off those posters as rape apologists because they may have genuine concerns about wider implications to fundamental rights in justice, and 2) There is an air of hostility on this forum directed at those who disagree with the status quo and this should end.

I'm not expecting you to do anything. But will hope that those who abuse others on this forum will stop because it's childish and immature (note: I've not even specifically cited any individual people other than AWholeLottaNosy's post above).