Changes in how rape will be investigated- about time!

[AWholeLottaNosy]

I just read this and I was really pleased. It's about time rape was investigated and prosecuted differently considering the appalling rape conviction rate we have in this country. Imagine there will be an outcry from all the MRAs, but, I think it's very good news...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11375667/Men-must-prove-a-woman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html

will

An acquaintance of mine who is also a serving police officer said the same thing

Hmmm, there does seem to be a pattern emerging rufus.......

Lurcio it was all a few years ago, before I had really done any research around rape/sexual assault, although even back then the things she said made me uncomfortable. If it were now, I would feel more confident to challenge her, but its not really worth bringing it all back up now. I do wonder what she thinks about the whole Ched Evans thing.......

About 20-odd years ago I was at a party where I got talking to some white men in the kitchen. Turns out they were all coppers, covering Peckham, Camberwell, Brixton. So being a stroppy young coloured woman I got into a bit of lively banter with 'da pigs'.

Anyway, one of them said (and the others agreed with) something that has stayed with me ever since, but I've only really started thinking about recently.

He said -

"Every day, from the moment we go on duty, to the time we clock off, we are constantly lied to. Pretty much everybody we deal with lies to us - the criminals lie to us, and even the victims lie to us - or at least don't tell the whole truth"

The example he gave was of a stabbing, where the police were pretty sure that it was some kind of drug or other deal gone wrong but they couldn't get any coherent story from the victim, so they were pretty sure he was lying too.

I generally aim to stay well away from the police round here so I didn't think much more about this, until I started reading FWR.

Now I'm thinking about this again.

Although a long time has past, and many new policies and procedures will have been passed down from upon high, the fact is the day to day life of a copper hasn't changed much. They are still generally dealing with low-life, and no doubt being lied to, day in, day out.

So I wonder - how can they possibly be the best people to deal with rape victims?

Yeah, I am tentative to blame individual officers for systemic problems in respective police regions.

That's my hope with this new legislation. It's not that there are a few rotten apples, the apple barrel is rotten and is in need of replacing.

Also in addition, is it not true that most rape victims carry a lot of guilt? Now just so I make myself crystal clear on this issue. No rape victim is at fault for a single thing, so I am not suggesting for a moment rape victims are to blame for the police not taking them seriously. However without specialised training is it not possible that the average plod's bullshit detector is set off by the average rape victim's natural guilt/shame response?

In which case this all has to be looked at carefully, and the training tailored appropriately.

I also think a good many rape victims are likely to be reporting with a touch of the 'but was I really raped?' in them - I know a lot of women who have written off experiences that were undoubtedly rapes as 'just a bad night'. Not saying that they don't have every right to do that, if they want to, but I'm sure if you did decide to report, and it was one of those, then if the policeman showed that he might think you were lying, or that he wondered if it was 'really' rape, you might very well think 'oh fuck it, he's probably right' and go home.

After all, we're shown all the time that loads of people will think you weren't raped if you were drunk, or if you went home with the guy. It's hard not to internalise that to some extent.

" why are there so many women invested in defending this lunacy? It makes no sense to me."

I suspect that it's because many women have experienced rapey behaviour from men whom they consider normal nice men. Some may actually have been raped by those normal nice men. There is so much bullshit around rape and rapists and rape victims, that those women are reluctant to identify their rapists as rapists and themselves as rape victims - they have a vague negative image in their minds about what a rape victim is and frankly in our culture, it's almost as negative as the image of the rapist so they are determined not to identify with it.

It's much easier to adopt the sassy, confident "hey, what's the big deal about an unwanted fuck, I should have just been more careful and other women, so should you, don't come running to me for solidarity". They get the double whammy of not having to face up to some unpalatable truths about how they don't have as much choice and autonomy as they thought they have while we have this rape culture and at the same time, getting cookies for man-pleasing. Job done.

Heavens, what a lot of rape mythery from one so new to MN.

priced out of the market

Whoops, looks like someone forgot to edit properly. Always a problem when cutting and pasting posts. You remember to change the gender but forget that women don't tend to think of themselves as objects to be bought and sold.

We leave that idea to the mysoginists and MRAs

Wtaf. Decent women?

"But men as we all know will most likely take the easiest option and go elsewhere"

what? you mean to prostitutes so they can abuse them instead?
or to women who don't have the self-esteem to object?

most men are better than this - I think you do them a disservice.

Yeah, I wondered what that meant too, DF!

So women who are raped aren't decent? Or is it just the women on this thread?

"what matters is that now the possibility of being falsely charged seems to be much more likely." Actually no that isn't what matters (and that isn't going to happen anyway). What matters is that men stop thinking they are entitled to penetrate women and stop raping them. It isn't hard to gain consent. It isn't hard to know when consent has been given. Anyone who says it is lying and a little bit rapey. Oh and they are misogynists who think women lie.

"Some I know have been falsely accused and it is hell for them." They probably haven't been falsely accused. You may want to think about that.

Fairlyfairforall - is this a real woman and not a MRA guy?

Wasn't there also this misplaced male nut-clutching (trying to think of pearl clutching equivalent) back in the 90's? 2000's? about consent and people saying they would need to have consent forms on their bedsides?

I though the "bu....bu.....but false claims ruining people" seem to be the very rare high profile stalker cases being mis-used as 'proof'

Fairly, dear, it's very very simple. Even for you to understand, steeped as you are in deplorable rape myths.

If you're not 100% sure that the person you're about to penetrate is 100% capable of giving consent, and is 100% giving consent, don't stick your penis into her.

That way, no one gets accused of anything, and, far more importantly, no women are raped.

See how lovely the world can be when you're not stupid enough to believe what MRE twatbadgers tell you about rape? There. A calming cup of tea might be in order now, yes?

Well I think men are right to be worried, after all look what happened after rape in marriage was made a crime. We were warned that it would trigger an epidemic of false claims by bitter twisted women. Just look at what happened . I predict that this injustice to men will happen all over again .

DF 'what? you mean to prostitutes so they can abuse them instead?
or to women who don't have the self-esteem to object?' this is your idea not mine it is you that automatically considered men might do this.

I meant just away from women.

You also imply that I was talking about men who rape but I was talking about the normal good individual man.

Generally men do not have to spend their social time with women so therefore the question is why would they?

I can't speak for men, but as a woman, I often spend time with men because I enjoy it - because I like talking to those individuals (be they male or female).

It never occurred to me that I was only supposed to spend my social time with people who had the same genitalia as me, and I'm pretty sure that most men don't feel that the only woman worth talking to is one they can have sex with as well!

OK, Let's assume you're correct, and there will be some men who are so incapable of understanding when women are happy having sex with them that they will get nervous and stay away from women.

Sounds like a good thing to me. Win win.

Much much better than a bloke who doesn't understand that kicking, screaming and shouting 'no' means women don't want sex continually hanging around us, no?

fairy

My husband is a very decent man

He is not at all concerned with this change

Mainly because he is not a fucking idiot

I do hope that puts your mind at risk...

Thatsnotmynorman - well I thought the laws as they were were pretty clear on what is and isn't rape but there are pitiful numbers of people coming forward and or being prosecuted.

What epidemic???

Fairlyfairforall - dont get where you are going with your thread - you mean they will go play football, go down pub or solitary play their pc or go gay????

Well men who don't know what consent is and isn't are more then welcome to move away from me (a woman).

I do not consider it a loss. I'm more than happy to hang out with the guys who are capable of knowing what IS consent and what actually isn't consent at all.