Changes in how rape will be investigated- about time!

[AWholeLottaNosy]

I just read this and I was really pleased. It's about time rape was investigated and prosecuted differently considering the appalling rape conviction rate we have in this country. Imagine there will be an outcry from all the MRAs, but, I think it's very good news...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11375667/Men-must-prove-a-woman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html

I think he means hysterical... as in the Greek.

all these people fretting about innocent men going to gaol, when the new guidelines won't in the least bit affect innocent men

BuffytheThunderLizard

'but in the UK such acts are not rape, rather they are assault'

Yes indeed which is why I typed 'these types of sexual offences' rather than stating rape as the offence. What you described is serious sexual assault and it was that that I think I was accurately referring to.

However I suggest the victims of serious sexual assault would deem their experience no less horrifying than rape. Therefore my meaning is clear regarding the culturally endemic bias or lack of awareness and knowledge of these acts and their perpetrators.

Obviously the more complex reasons for lack of consent give rise to doubts as to whether or not normal consent has truly been given. For example your new partner earns more than you. Are they therefore manipulating you to the point where consent cannot be given? At what wage gap does this apply? Is there a quantity banding table linked to the cpi index? Questions like these begin to construct a negative framework around a relationship which must be dealt with, unless one is ignorant, and contributes to the increasing negative load of reasons for men (I think) especially not to risk a relationship with a female partner. It is the cumulative effect that is pushing men away from taking that risk. The situation, as this new legal guidance proves, is getting worse for the confidence of the partner taking the risk with their livelihood.

This may not matter on the individual scale of the person but as macro levers, changing the way men behave away from the desire to risk a relationship. This doesn't benefit the growth of society because it delays child bearing. Fewer children equals demographic decline and that in turn results in economic stagnation or deflation. The downward spiral of poverty despair and emigration are the result.

PuffinsAreFictitious

You're so right, I mean correct :)

Wow - from that last paragraph we have the end of civilisation as we know it, and all from the fact that men are going to be asked "how did you know she consented?"

Who'd a thunk it.

aha, so more women getting justice = the economy crashes

PetulaGordino

'all these people fretting about innocent men going to gaol, when the new guidelines won't in the least bit affect innocent men'

or the guilty but the point is the fear of an accusation not the misapplication of the law because that can already exist.

It is however one negative from a long list of them.

Did it end in apes learning to speak and Charlton Heston nearly saying a bad word?

Is that what happens if men can't be arsed to find out if the woman they are proposing to penetrate is consenting to it? Dystopia, nuclear explosions and shit?

Can't say that people having fewer babies is a bad thing though, what with huge overcrowding problems on the planet. We could maybe import people from China or India to make up the shortfall.

i expect this is what is meant when feminists are encouraged to be logical

PetulaGordino

I fail to understand how more women will gain justice If the defendant lies or the accuser lies.

"Is that what happens if men can't be arsed to find out if the woman they are proposing to penetrate is consenting to it? Dystopia, nuclear explosions and shit?"

i'm prepared to take the risk

I don't give a damn about the potentially declining demographic of a society that requires women to be available as sex objects at all times to anyone no matter how they feel. If that's its modus operandi it deserves to die. Society is not more important than the people within it. The particular economic model requiring such behaviour is most definitely not more important than the people it is consuming.

Definitely not a good reason to worry in any way about male sexual predators being pushed away from women, no matter how many words you use to re-state that case.

the other way round. you know what i mean

Think I might be as well.

Obvs, my last was in response to Petula.

More coffee!

I have been reading about trauma, and changing attitudes towards it, today.

Apparently, whenever society shifts from regarding some kind of horrific oppression as acceptable, to seeing it as unacceptable, you will always find people (often those who either have vested interests, or who are perhaps conservative or unthinking by nature) who cannot process the change, and fall back on flawed analogies in an attempt to justify it. It's a typical process, unfortunately.

what gibbering said

we know what it is like living in a world where men's sexual gratification is prioritised above genuine, freely-given consent. it's pretty shit.

PuffinsAreFictitious

'Can't say that people having fewer babies is a bad thing though, what with huge overcrowding problems on the planet. We could maybe import people from China or India to make up the shortfall'

Unfortunately your conclusion is incorrect. In only a few short decades Japan will have a demographic crisis and be bankrupt because of it's ageing population leading to a perpetual exodus of people from that nation. The same will apply in Europe as the population increase needed to continue economic expansion is hundreds of millions of people short.

China has had and continues to have a low replacement policy and cannot close the gap in time for itself let alone other countries.

Ultimately the more barriers there are for men to have relationships, for example lack of monetary prowess, the quicker demographic and economic collapse occurs. That is why people talk of the 'baby boomer' generation as the last economic positive ie good pensions secure jobs etc.

Fgs. "Man having relationship saves the planet!" And there's me thinking we need to use less oil or something. A day where you've learned something is never wasted.

I think I've just wandered into a parallel universe.

Wow - so making rape within marriage illegal has directly led to a decline in marriage? We get some pretty thick visitors here, but this one stands out among the crowd as unusually thick, which is, I suppose, in its way quite an achievement.

No grimble, just wandered 'under the bridge' with someone who sadly, really doesn't understand what they're talking about.

GibberingFlapdoodle

'I don't give a damn about the potentially declining demographic of a society that requires women to be available as sex objects at all times to anyone no matter how they feel. If that's its modus operandi it deserves to die. Society is not more important than the people within it. The particular economic model requiring such behaviour is most definitely not more important than the people it is consuming.

Definitely not a good reason to worry in any way about male sexual predators being pushed away from women, no matter how many words you use to re-state that case'.

You've entirely conflated two subjects in error. Individual liberty and protection with macro demographic and economic effects. Neither of the two I suggested needed to depend upon the other in a negative format. The discouragement of men to partner women has nothing to do with protection of persons from rape and is a different subject entirely that I discussed earlier. I think you might have assumed I mean or implied that when I did not. So feel at ease please.

fairly, I think you're mistaken - puffins is speaking sense here, and you'd do well to learn from her.

Yy Grimble, budding fantasy authors take note!