Can men be feminists?

[Vivacia]

Inspired by another thread!

I've just read the claim that men can never really be feminists. I disagree. Would be fascinated, and grateful, to read others' thoughts on this.

I consider "feminism" to be a set of beliefs.

People should be treated and valued equally, and given equal opportunities, regardless of their sex or gender. Currently this is not the case.

Men are able to hold those beliefs.

Therefore men can be feminists.

I'd suspect though Trills that the actual bar is much higher than what one believes.

Who precisely decide what the actual bar is?

Can I objectify Brent Spiner?

He nearly married the Queen of the Borg.

My dogs like him too.

To me feminism is many pathed route to equality and don't see what the fear is?

Men are able to hold those beliefs.

Therefore men can be feminists.

My daughters tell me this Trills, I tell them that I haven't their 'lived experience' so prefer to be referred to as an ally. I'm slightly wary of men who claim to be feminists, for some reason.

To complicate matters more, if a woman who is a feminist tells a man she thinks he's a feminist, but he says no I'm not, I am an ally, well, that can seem to be a bit of mansplaining perhaps. Maybe suggesting that she doesn't really understand feminism but he does?

oh I can easily solve that conundrum Scone. She's wrong.

There.

Different women have different lives and different experiences.

Which particular experiences are required? How can you be sure that all women have them?

To be a feminist do you need to be both:

1. oppressed (i.e. a woman); and
2. believe in and promote equality?

If so, you cannot be a male feminist as you cannot claim oppression (although this could be debated). You might also be excluded if you are a woman that claims never to have suffered gender based oppression.

However if being oppressed is not necessary to the membership of "feminists" then you can be a male feminist by the act of believing and supporting the political movement, just like a wealthy privileged Lord can be a socialist.

Who gets to define the rules for membership of feminism anyway?
Pretty sure it's no single person and especially not me.

Rules for eligibility to be a 'feminist' - gets kicked around a bit on these boards over time. i.e. some women accused of not being a 'proper feminist' or 'not feminist enough', though that's fairly rare.

'Imagine and empathise' goes some way for men, ime, but recognising that men actually have a "mandate to intervene" (and a requirement imho) to make a difference and following that through re womens rights is the next quite important bit of the Lego structure.

yes I see that Buffy - I'd replace with 'responsibility' I'd guess, though I didn't mean for it to carry the officialdom that comes with it.

Well with respect, really, I didn't 'weigh in' at all, or tell you how to 'do it better'. And I don't need to do the things you ask by way of social media - it's all around me in RL, in gritty reality. That;s where it actually happens, not by proxy on a web-site where you seem to live - so forgive me for pointing that out to you?

You seem to uncomfortable with men taking any responsibility - but essentially 'we' don't require your particular 'blessing' or even agreement - it's regarding men taking responsibility to 'be that better part of themselves', not being abusive, enjoying a 'privilege' at the cost to others, and recognising their powerful role in making a better world. It's the "hard-to-reach" boys and men that involves me, not the easy, liberally-minded ones.

No, not pissed off at all, though thanks for the invitation to feel that way.

erm..it's pretty clear I'm not a 'feminist man' - surely that's been obv.

I'd indicated it's a male responsibility for a few things - some shared, some not so with a feminist interpretation. Not sure where the insulting thing comes in, but that could go on endlessly, with a 'touche' aspect that is too boring to go into, personally. Touchy male ego? Okay. ditto.

PA digs? Really, Buffy?

And I don't believe for a nano-second you've hidden this. fwiw.