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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why a lot of women don't come on the feminism threads...

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:38

So I posted this question earlier, why don't more women come on these threads ( considering how many women are on MN)

The replies saddened me. Are we doing something wrong? I remember a thread some time ago asking how many women lurk on the feminism threads but never post. I was shocked by how many women read these threads but didn't feel able to join in. I don't think feminism has to be particularly intellectual and I would like to be able to educate more women about feminism, how it affects women in many different areas of their lives, offer support and talk about what we as women can do about it.

Please have a read of this thread and tell me what your thoughts are. I want us to be as inclusive as possible as it affects us all...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 08:50

Skylark- I honestly don't understand what you're saying. And I don't understand why you're going! Could you say more?

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 08:50

Tbf my own life is pretty ok but I get really upset and angry about things being done to women and girls in the uk and around the world that I hear about or read about in the need and that is my main driver.

I mean I have always noticed stuff in my own life but I could have shrugged it off for eg when I got harassed on the street I hated it and got angry but I know I could have put it down to "one of those things" and forgotten about it iyswim stuff like that.

But the things I read I just can't put them away not at all.

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 08:53

Not sure that made much sense Confused

Sorry am on holiday on device with vicious autocorrect!

MellowAutumn · 31/10/2014 08:57

It's the femenistplaining which is as bad as mansplaining.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 08:59

"It's the femenistplaining which is as bad as mansplaining."

Could you say more about that?

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:59

That's fine mellow you don't have to read it.

YonicScrewdriver · 31/10/2014 09:05

FWR can sometimes be overly defensive. I'm a regular and I'll put my hand up to that personally.

The board is trolled a fair bit and it can make posters hyper aware. OliviaBlue posted on several FWR threads with some odd posts - many regulars will have noticed that as she popped up on a number of their TIO. But if you just read one thread from Active or whatever, it might seem like she's getting unfair responses.

I guess it's a bit like the debate currently going on about what to do with suicide threads - MN as a whole is probably sensitised to MH threads right now, posters are probably reporting more and responding less.

corkgirlindublin · 31/10/2014 09:05

I posted here once. I was very patronisingly told to shut up by a regular poster. I haven't been back. This thread showing up in active lured me back in.

I am a female engineer working in an all male environment. I am also the mother of 2 girls. I am interested in this topic but the first deliberate sneery elitist attitude means I will explore feminism elsewhere.

maddy68 · 31/10/2014 09:05

I was a lurker too despite being a regular on the other forums. I find responses aggressive and unnecessary. The amount of personal insults and comments are Both in breach of the talk guidelines and actually genuinely prevent me from using it.
If that is what feminism is about then actually it makes me want to be less feminist.

YonicScrewdriver · 31/10/2014 09:06

Maddy - please do report PAs.

scarevola · 31/10/2014 09:08

"Why post on FWR if you don't agree with feminism?"

Because it's a board (just like any other on MN, as thrashed out in site issues ad nauseam) where anything can be discussed with a feminism angle included, but that will never mean "agree with" by every poster on every subject in every way.

If you want that, you'd be better off on a closed site (with vetted membership and active moderation).

(BTW, if you think agnostics and those hostile to religion don't post in MN Spirituality board (or whatever it's name is), then perhaps you don't spend much time there? That's just a guess. But it's also a model of different tones of debate on sharply divided views).

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 09:08

But cailin there are various forms of communism, it's not just one set of beliefs. Leninism, Marxism, Stalinism, Trotskyite, Mao, Castro. There are differences in their ideology: adherents to one form may well argue the others are wrong and could do so on a communist board. They'd all still be talking about communism.

Tweasels · 31/10/2014 09:09

I think there is a bit of fear about making yourself look stupid on here. I lurk and learn loads in FWR but I feel more confident discussing my thoughts on the other boards.

I think the difference may be that whilst I identify as a Feminist, am an activist and am lucky that through my job I get to do some important work in promoting women's rights. But what I am not is academic or learned in the history, philosophy and theoretical aspects of Feminism.

This is often how conversations go on here and whilst I thoroughly enjoy reading it and learning from it (Buffy, I think you're brill) I just don't have the knowledge or intelligence to join in. I feel like I will be discredited as representing a sort of Feminism 'lite' to coin a bad phrase.

An example would be I got a bit of harassment on Twitter the other day and some men started retweeting and wading in to tell me why Feminism was bad and my first thought was to come here and ask for help on how to deal with it. Then I thought no, those women will have dealt with much worse than that and will have had the answers ready to shut those idiots up. I'll be seen as useless as I essentially backed down just to make them go away Sad

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 09:11

Littlebear experiences and beliefs are two separate things. No one can ever be told their experience is wrong. But if their belief around or interpretation of that experience isn't feminist then it will be challenged.
Agreed experiences and beliefs are different. But they inform one another. And who's to say that the women's feelings about her experience isn't feminist or that she isn't. She just doesn't subscribe to your definition of feminism.

cailindana · 31/10/2014 09:11

I said Christian, not spirituality scarevola. If I go on a Christian board and say "Jesus didn't exist," what response can I expect? "oh yes, you're quite right, thanks for bringing that to our attention"?

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 09:13

But people who think feminism is bollocks post in here all the time!

What is being questioned is the response to them.

If someone asks a question they get an answer.
If someone comes and says women's equality has happened so why are we wasting our time naval gazing and wallowing in imagined victimhood they get a different response.

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 09:15

Well if it was a sensible and useful board you might get asked why you thought that and be able to have a debate about it. You could certainly have a debate about whether a man called Jesus lived in the early 1st century without subscribing to the belief he was the son of God.

cailindana · 31/10/2014 09:16

All of those branches of communism have the same basic set of beliefs. So, all feminists believe women are held back by sexism. But we can and dk discuss details like marriage, being a sahm, etc. It's when someone comes on saying "there is no sexism here" or "sexism isn't a problem" that posters get short shrift.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 09:16

"I am interested in this topic but the first deliberate sneery elitist attitude means I will explore feminism elsewhere."

I'm sorry to use you as an example- but this is something else that bothers me a bit. Why would one rude, ignorant poster put you off joining in with something that interested you? It does only seem to be in feminism that this happens. Everywhere else people say "well, that was an ill mannered person, I will ignore/give as good as I got/report then move on to the more interesting people/chat" In FWRnit seems to be one strike and I'm out.

YonicScrewdriver · 31/10/2014 09:17

"Then I thought no, those women will have dealt with much worse than that and will have had the answers ready to shut those idiots up. I'll be seen as useless as I essentially backed down just to make them go away"

No you wouldn't be seen as useless, I promise.

Post in the pub if you like?

tipsyloolah · 31/10/2014 09:17

I lurk a lot.

I find it a tremendously supportive place even though I say nothing. There are very few women in my real life who identify as feminists. A few years ago I moved to a place in which identifying that way is virtually alien to the vast majority of women who live here. To be able to read threads here that reaffirm what I believe, what I know is right, what keeps me going, is priceless.

I breathe a sigh of relief when I click here and see a post that has been started to discuss something that is bothering or challenging me, but which practically everyone else I know seems to think isn't important. I have quite a few health issues which make the fight seem even more difficult at times, and this section often provides comfort in the sense that it reminds me who I am.

The women who do post here, who believe what I believe, have no idea how they have kept me going. I feel a bit emotional about it really Blush.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 09:18

"They'd all still be talking about communism."

And that happens on FWR all the time.

Coffeeinapapercup · 31/10/2014 09:18

"why you included female genital mutilation on the list of things that you see as not "big issues"?"

Statistically in this country it isn't. There are a few countries it is. I don't have an issue with it being a feminist issue. But I don't expect it is one that many women on these boards (either Fwr or generally) have any personal relationship with . It has become a disproportionately important feminist issue. However talk more generally about the treatment of woman who find themselves in a caring role or in dealings with the family courts (which they can't legally discuss) or the csa and there are massive issues.

The time spent discussing things of absolutely no relevance to many women's life is massively off putting

MellowAutumn · 31/10/2014 09:20

're the femenistplaining - it's the over interlectualisation of people's everyday experience and the inability of some of the posters to contain their ego. The relationship board does more for real feminism and real women than any of the 'you don't understand because you havnt read 3 million obscure books on the g spot '

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 09:23

Ok, recent thread about the Ms, Mrs, Miss debate. Some women were told that by wishing to be known as Mrs they were oppressing other women. These women considered themselves feminist, would have flown to the moon before believing their husband was superior to them in any way. But still they weren't suitably feminist because they'd chosen to call themselves Mrs.