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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why a lot of women don't come on the feminism threads...

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:38

So I posted this question earlier, why don't more women come on these threads ( considering how many women are on MN)

The replies saddened me. Are we doing something wrong? I remember a thread some time ago asking how many women lurk on the feminism threads but never post. I was shocked by how many women read these threads but didn't feel able to join in. I don't think feminism has to be particularly intellectual and I would like to be able to educate more women about feminism, how it affects women in many different areas of their lives, offer support and talk about what we as women can do about it.

Please have a read of this thread and tell me what your thoughts are. I want us to be as inclusive as possible as it affects us all...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads

OP posts:
plotmissinginaction · 31/10/2014 07:32

I lurk. I dip in and out because I get overwhelmed by how bad things can be for women and I feel a bit powerless to change it so. I get overwhelmed. I don't find it intimidating, I find violence against women intimidating, but not this board.

I miss the Dittany days, I learned so much from her and she helped me with some difficult things probably without even realising. Does anyone know what happened to her? I didn't know her well but often think of her.

Chandon · 31/10/2014 07:43

The implication in OP that some people may be worried about it being too intellectual is a bit ... Off IMO.

Also, i feel I have been slated enough on MN for being a sahm so I am wary.

I find the feminist board a bit prescriptive at times.

So that is why I am rarely there, not even lurking.

I am a feminist BTW.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 07:51

I think the problem is that the debate always polarises into "feminism is about supporting women's right to choose, whatever that choice is" versus "feminism is about thinking about how every choice and action you make impacts on other women and how they are perceived, and trying only to make choices and take actions that advances the position of women in society"

The idea that women can make anti-feminist choices is a tough one. But it is one of the things you have to believe if you are going to call yourself a feminist. You can't make you your own definition. Nobody has to be a feminist. But if you want to be one, you have to take on the tough stuff. And a woman who comes onto a feminist bored and says something like "Oh there's no need for feminism- all you have to do is let men think they're in charge and manipulate them from behind the scenes" is going to get challenged. Because that is not only anti feminist, it is also insulting to both women and men! It's not "groupthink" just because a group of people think the same way.

Oh and another problem here is that people often decide what the anti feminist choices are based on misinformation. That's when they say things like "Well, I'm not a feminist because I bake/have sex with men/love my boy babies/wear lipstick/sew/like nice clothes/insert activity of choice" because that is the mythology that has grown up around feminism. The Daily Mail and similar have a lot to answer for here. As does Viz. Lots of people seem to take Milly Tant seriously!

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 07:55

Chandon- the OP was only quoting what others have said. It is very common to hear people say that they don't post on theses threads because they feel they don't know enough. The OP is worried about that- not agreeing with it.

Oh,and as far as I know, there is only one well known poster who is passionately opposed to people being SAHM. (Well, two, but the other one doesn't post on FWR).

meglet · 31/10/2014 08:00

I often read, and occasionally post. Every one else says the smart stuff better, and quicker, than me.

I don't find it intimidating to chip in though.

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 08:09

I can't cut and paste on this device but coffee upthtead you say we are so busy fighting what we deem to be feminist issues and we don't talk about important things that affect a lot of women.

I was wondering why you included female genital mutilation on the list of things that you see as not "big issues"?

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 08:12

Hakluyt the OP did pick and choose the reasons she set out in her OP. There are a number of others being expressed on the other thread.

It would be nice if the OP was to return to either thread to add her twopence worth. At the moment it feels rather like she's cinducting an experiment.

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:12

Feminism is a certain way of thinking though. It would be very odd for me to go on a board about communism and say "well I don't agree that in order to be communist a state must abolish private property" - it makes no sense because that's a basic fundamental belief of communism. Similarly if a poster comes on FWR and says "I don't think women are held back by sexism," they will be challenged because that is not a feminist statement.
BTW I'm (mostly) a SAHM, and a Mrs. I post more than I should a lot on FWR. These things have never been an issue.

Right I'll start a thread.

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 08:15

I see where you're coming from Cailin about such sweeping statements but in the nitty gritty of life people will have different experiences and could valuably post about them without being told they're automatically wrong.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 08:19

What sort of things did you have in mind, LittleBearPad?

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:20

It's not about being told they're wrong though littlebear, it's about understanding those experiences from a feminist viewpoint. If someone doesn't want a feminist viewpoint then it's best not to post on the feminist board - there are tons of other that will give support and guidance.

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:26

I think there is often a difficulty in separating the personal from the political (though they are intertwined). So I know and accept that the "Mrs" title is problematic from a feminist point of view given its meaning and the fact that an equivalent doesn't exist for men. But I still use it and I have no shame in it. The two are separate as far as I'm concerned.

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 08:26

But Cailin women are posting their experiences, they consider themselves feminists but they're told they're wrong. How can their experience be wrong, it's a fact for them. And please note I'm talking about the nitty gritty of life, not big themes.

Don't you see how that can be off-putting and why posters avoid FWR

skylark2 · 31/10/2014 08:27

" It would be very odd for me to go on a board about communism and say "well I don't agree that in order to be communist a state must abolish private property" - it makes no sense because that's a basic fundamental belief of communism."

I don't think it would be odd at all. It's completely normal in most places to be able to discuss the basic tenets of some principle and whether they always apply or not.

Unless the board is supposed to be solely about communism as it is, and nobody is allowed to discuss whether communism could be done differently.

Back2Two · 31/10/2014 08:30

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This post has been withdrawn due to privacy concerns

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:33

Ah see maybe that's the problem skylark. Communism is communism because of its beliefs. If you change the beliefs it becomes something else, something just as valid but different IMO.

Littlebear experiences and beliefs are two separate things. No one can ever be told their experience is wrong. But if their belief around or interpretation of that experience isn't feminist then it will be challenged.

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 08:34

I don't believe women are held back by sexism

Isn't posting a personal experience it's posting a statement which if true (and I wish it was) would mean no need for feminism.

It'd be like a person posting on a board for racism and saying "I don't think non white people are held back by racism" well great job done let's all go home.

I'm not sure what useful feminist discussion can come out of the statement that women aren't held back by feminism to be honest.

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 08:36

Lol sexism :D

Many do argue that feminism holds women back which is an interesting discussion!

Back2Two · 31/10/2014 08:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This post has been withdrawn due to privacy concerns

skylark2 · 31/10/2014 08:38

And that's the point where I step out. I'm not interested in posting on a feminist board where not thinking that every single tenet of feminism is a given gets "challenged".

The sister thread to this one asked why people didn't post here. In my case, at least, it's because I'm doing something equally valid but different and it's not welcome here.

SevenZarkSeven · 31/10/2014 08:40

But I don't understand skylark.

How do you want posters on a feminism board to respond to someone who says in their opinion women are not held back by sexism?

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:43

No, back, you're just living your life.

Feel free to join in here or not. But no one is judging you as bad or crap.

Hazchem · 31/10/2014 08:43

I have to say my first really forage into this board was me begin told I was wrong, quite wrong, but rather than it be nasty or mean a group of women spent time discussing, sharing and exploring the issue I had raised. They took the time and energy to engage with me. rather than take thier disagreement as aggression I saw it for what it was a discussion a chance to look at and examine and aspect of society that interests me. It was enlightening and exciting.
In fact I for this board enlightening and exciting, I also find it supportive an d very often very funny, I feel treated as an equal and if I do n0ot understand something other posters take the time to explain hings rather than act as if I am an idiot.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 08:45

"But, away from these boards there are millions of women who are feminists who just find it a natural state of being. I've always been a feminist but I don't find it presents me with massive "tough stuff" to challenge in my daily life.

Am I a bad feminist? A crap feminist? A failing feminist?"

You might very well be the world's best feminist and have got everything sorted! Do you think that there are no more battles for feminism to fight?

cailindana · 31/10/2014 08:47

If I go on a Christian board and say "I don't believe in Jesus" the only response I'll get is "ok, get lost then." There are literally thousands of places on MN to post. Why post on FWR if you don't agree with feminism?