Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Why a lot of women don't come on the feminism threads...

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:38

So I posted this question earlier, why don't more women come on these threads ( considering how many women are on MN)

The replies saddened me. Are we doing something wrong? I remember a thread some time ago asking how many women lurk on the feminism threads but never post. I was shocked by how many women read these threads but didn't feel able to join in. I don't think feminism has to be particularly intellectual and I would like to be able to educate more women about feminism, how it affects women in many different areas of their lives, offer support and talk about what we as women can do about it.

Please have a read of this thread and tell me what your thoughts are. I want us to be as inclusive as possible as it affects us all...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads

OP posts:
ZombiePuffinsAreREAL · 31/10/2014 00:45

Coffee, you would be surprised. SolidGoldBrass would back you up, I have no doubt, as would the 2 pro porn men on that thread, there might be others. I'd be interested in your view of how censorship always affects women first. I might not agree, and I might argue the point, but we tend to play the ball, not the player (afaics)

plinkyplonks · 31/10/2014 00:46

JulyKit Confused Not at all, just trying to answer the OP's question.

Coffee - Completely agreed on your last point.

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 00:48

Coffee, there's one way to find out what the response will be if you post on a thread, isn't there...? The views you express in your porn thread non-posts are regularly expressed on FWR boards, as it happens (and by regular posters, too). Some posters disagree with them, but I guess that's the nature of discussion, really, isn't it?

As for 'women holding very similar opinions and agreeing with each other', how can it be that the group of catfighting, sour old harridans that we're meant to be on FWR would do that?

everydayaschoolday · 31/10/2014 00:50

A poster Oliviablue is being aggressively attacked for simply having an alternative opinion to the majority on the thread. Frankly, I understand her point, although I might have expressed it a little differently.

Where's the women supporting women?
And supporting ALL women's choices?
Even when it doesn't conform to their perception of feminism?

I very much sadly miss the predominantly male environment of my previous career. I feel have been more sincerely supported and respected by male family, friends and colleagues than by any females. And that truly saddens me to say that.

The link as asked for by Hakluyt

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2222424-i-need-a-break-from-this-feminism-stuff?pg=3

Coffeeinapapercup · 31/10/2014 00:53

Nope I do not intend to get into that argument again. I endured a far too many personal insults on that thread

and it really put me off Mumsnet for a while, Now I will try to only post on threads that are fun.....

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 00:55

everyday I don't see that the response to 'OliviaBlue' was any more aggressive than many responses to many posters on many other MN boards.
I would say many of the regular posters' responses were extremely kind, in fact.
(Must pop off to see what other 'contributions' 'OliviaBlue' has made to MN Grin )

BellaSolanum · 31/10/2014 00:57

Ah just read that thread. She's not being attacked for having an alternative opinion, she came onto the thread and instantly dismissed all the other posters who were upset at inequality in the world because she thinks you should just manipulate men into doing what you want by being "feminine".

Where is she supporting the other women on that thread?

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 00:59

The implication? That you haven't read the thread, that you don't understand the thread and then there's the statement that seems to get trotted out a lot, that feminism isn't about choice

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 01:00

Coffee - if you want a fun thread, I suggest you pop over to OliviaBlue's first ever MN thread (2 days old). It's about 'her' DH and BIL naked wrestling...

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 01:01

And women's choices aren't supported on the FWR boards because if you make the 'non-feminist' choice you're told you're oppressing other women.

everydayaschoolday · 31/10/2014 01:01

Zombie I read on to the bit where you said that she utterly failed as a woman. I suspect you'll come back and say that was a joke too. She may well have been goady in your opinion, but that doesn't justify some of the comments, by various posters, made towards her.

I'm going to leave this thread now as I am getting embroiled in exactly the side of this board that I find distasteful.

Goodnight fellow feminists.

Coffeeinapapercup · 31/10/2014 01:02

Also there are far bigger problems in this world than porn or issues that I would be bothered in engaging with

For an examination of censorship and state control vs personal sexuality and freedom can I suggest the musical Cabaret. Does the job more eloquently than I ever can.

ZombiePuffinsAreREAL · 31/10/2014 01:03

Coffee, then I am very sorry, and completely understand why you don't want to post. This should be a safe space and you are rightly choosing not to post where you feel unsafe to do so.

ZombiePuffinsAreREAL · 31/10/2014 01:04

Of course it was a joke! Oh well, bye then

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 01:05

that feminism isn't about choice

Please link me to that statement on an FWR board, Little. (It shouldn't be hard to find, from what you're saying.)

Regarding not understanding the thread, etc. - you've said how you feel, but how is it that FWR posters make you feel this? Can you give us a real example? A link,perhaps?

HowsTheSerenity · 31/10/2014 01:08

Dittany? Now that's a blast from the past.
I nearly considered flouncing once because of her.

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 01:08

Coffee, as we've said, you're welcome to post about these 'problems' on FWR. Or tell us where it is that you do post about them...

Yeah, Cabaret's great Hmm

Mind what I said about OliviaBlue's naked wrestling thread. I think it might be right up your strasse (if it's important enough, that is...)

Bye, then! Smile

ZombiePuffinsAreREAL · 31/10/2014 01:09

July, in fairness, that is said quite a bit. Mostly, because it's shorthand for saying that it isn't possible to make free choices within patriarchy, so feminism is about the liberation of women from patriarchy so that both men and women are able to make choices free of socialised patriarchal constructs, which gets kind of long winded.

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 01:16

Thanks Zombie. I was trying to link to the Mrs, Ms, Miss thread, Sunday at 19.19 and 19.49 are examples I am talking about.

however my bloody iPad is scuppered because of ios8 and won't copy/paste

ZombiePuffinsAreREAL · 31/10/2014 01:27

Just don't mention bloody iPads and bloody ios8. I become extraordinarily unfeministy and want to launch the fucking thing out the window. Grin

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 01:34

Thank you for giving an example, LittleBearPad. ISWYM (and WYM, Zombie).

But... there are 300+ posts on that thread. A couple of them are about 'choice'. Hakluyt's is a bit more complex than that (and fairly interesting).

Yes, many posters point out that feminism (as they see it) isn't about choice. Sometimes these sorts of posts can seem dismissive and 'silencing'. Sometimes they are really interesting. Usually there's a lot more to said about the topic in question, and a lo more is sad about it.

I really don't think that the FWR boards are more aggressive or intolerant or 'groupthink'-ish than any other boards. I do think they can be more demanding. I do think posters are required to think more carefully. I also think this is quite obvious, and that it curious that so may posters are so vitriolic about FWR, insisting that FWR posters are vicious, or whatever, rather than just admitting that FWR threads often require that posters think a bit harder than on other boards.

Coffeeinapapercup · 31/10/2014 01:37

"Yeah, Cabaret's great hmm"

Where am I supposed to go with that? There's no content to add to the discussion just sarcasm and a view that you didn't enjoy it.

"Mind what I said about OliviaBlue's naked wrestling thread. I think it might be right up your strasse (if it's important enough, that is...)"

That's exactly the kind of comment that puts people off engaging. whilst it may skid under the criteria for personal attack, it's not far off, given the intention is to invalid someone's opinion by belittling them generally. I'm not sure how that fits into any idea of feminism and ably demonstrates what people who don't post on the feminism boards are saying

LittleBearPad · 31/10/2014 01:41

It is said a lot however; and generally has a deeper meaning than simply saying feminism isn't about choice as Zombie. Nevertheless people were also told on that thread that by making the non-feminist choice they were oppressing other women. Actually they just liked being called 'Mrs X'. But being told that isn't going to encourage posters to hang around FWR.

JulyKit · 31/10/2014 01:43

Coffee - Cabaret's great! I mean that sincerely! (I wondered why you were continuing discussion of censorship - sort of - on this thread... Pedantic of me, perhaps.)

Why do you think my mentioning OliviaBlue's naked wrestling thread is intended as 'belittling'? The thread looks fun!

messyisthenewtidy · 31/10/2014 06:23

"And women's choices aren't supported on the FWR boards because if you make the 'non-feminist' choice you're told you're oppressing other women."

I dunno. I remember a lovely thread where lots of people were discussing choice over things like shaving and other beauty practices and lots of feminists were of the opinion that it's pretty hard to live in this society without making some anti feminist choices just in order to get by, and therefore completely understandable. The only posters who were dismissed / argued against were those who believed their decision to (eg) wax their muffs was entirely down to their own free thinking free will and nothing to do with the current societal pressures on women and girls to be as hairless as a dolphin.