Female body hair / husband- help?

[wishfulthinking1]

Since the birth of my son I've considered feminist issues much more deeply- particularly inspired by 'hair:not the musical', I've begun considering hair removal as a choice- and have chosen not to at the the moment.

My lovely husband (and he really is lovely) is struggling with this- says he doesn't find it attractive / is embarrassed when we go swimming etc- he doesn't mean to be ignorant, but he's really struggling with it.

I'm trying to find something for him to read that could help him get his head around it. Most internet searches come up with articles along the lines of 'eww, gross, if your partner loved you, she'd shave blah blah'.

Does anyone have any advice?
Thanks

Yes, was replying to wolf!

Ah I thought I read that on another thread - oops! Sorry for confusing everyone

I know this is really old, but I wanted to chip in with a well done. I feel very similarly, that while I don't feel 100% comfortable in my own skin, no woman will unless some women go out on a limb and say "actually, this is totally normal". The people who responded to your post saying it's not a feminist issue, or that you should just do what's easiest for you have missed the point, either through lack of insight or lack of courage xx

Haven't read the threat - but has anyone pointed out that most men shave every morning? And in many many jobs are expected to. And many women would hate if their husbands had a beard and would not hesitate to tell them?

I am not persuaded hair is necessarily a feminist issue is as simple as first appears.

Well-respected professionals from surgeons and lawyers to MPs and actors can freely choose whether to remove their facial hair, or keep and maintain it. There are very few jobs in which a man would be considered dirty or unkempt because he had a beard. As a comparison, it just doesn't hold up.

There's nothing wrong with a husband not finding female body hair attractive, and to tell his partner that. There is something wrong with him trying to control what she does with her body however.

but has anyone pointed out that most men shave every morning

Really? Of the men I commonly associate with (work and social), only 3 shave every day, the rest either have beards, or do the designer stubble thing.

It's a feminist issue because there are plenty of beardy men images - it really is a free choice, but hairy-legged ladies? They're only just about to show an advert for razors where the woman actually has leg hair, and that's a product designed to remove it!

I've done the same as the OP (actually about 4 years before that) - a couple of weeks ago, I had DP begging, like a 13 year old wanting to be dropped off around the corner from the school, me to shave my legs because we were going to a hotel pool and people he knew would be there. This is a man who has virtually no hair-free part on his body at All

There are many animalistic behaviours that are suppressed due to societal pressure. For example, it's perfectly natural for a middle aged men to find nubile 18yo girls attractive but I'm sure most on here would have a problem with their husbands ogling young girls as they walk down the street.

Beauty standards are present in many animals and change relatively fast in humans. My partner is perfectly entitled to wear a powdered wig and powder his face but he certainly wouldn't be getting any if he did lol.

And people who mention that beards are acceptable seem to be neglecting the fact that a well maintained beard takes more effort than just shaving. Let's be honest, not many women would fancy a hobo-esque, totally unkempt wildman.

"a well maintained beard takes more effort than just shaving"

The issue isn't just the effort, the time, the cost and the discomfort of removing hair. It's also the stigma; the mentality that body hair on women is freakish, unnatural or dirty. If a man doesn't shave his face for a week but showers as normal, he wouldn't get a second glance on the bus. If a woman hasn't shaved under her arms for a week, it's noticed and commented on.

I can't even tell if my female colleagues have shaved armpits. I can definitely tell when my partner hasn't trimmed his beard for a week and have told him on occasions he looks scruffy.

Most mammals have beauty standards in some way and they generally seem to adhere to them. Ours are undoubtedly shaped by societal pressure but it feels just as unnatural to deliberately fight them for ideological reasons as it does to go along with what one finds attractive like most mammals do. Personally, I find hairy legs gross.

I know I've joined in and compared too - but comparing facial hair removal (which women are also expected to do) to body hair removal (which men aren't expected to do) isn't really like for like anyway is it.

And yes, I just don't understand how a man, with hair legs, chest, armpits etc. can stand there and pull a disgusted face at a woman with hairy legs - how can he keep a straight face at the immense double standard, at the hypocrisy?

I thought feminism was about having your own choices and doing things you want to do as a woman?

It's really not. Unless you subscribe to the school of thought that believes feminism solely consists of choosing to be a stripper as a form of female empowerment.

My partner trims his armpit and genital hair and uses Veet on his hairy back.

For example, it's perfectly natural for a middle aged men to find nubile 18yo girls attractive

Well.... I am not so sure about that. You can say that pedophilia is 'natural' too then in that some people are attracted to prepubescent children. Attraction is not entirely natural- it has its roots in social conditioning and cultural norms too. Pedophilia is rightly reviled in most societies and the only ones acting on it are labelled as deviant.
The same could be true for middle-age attraction to very young women. Except that's not reviled at all, is it? It's normalised and encouraged. Hannah Gadsby raised this in her show Nanette. Women are infantalised, reduced to their looks and told that their prime of life is at the age of 19 or so. Men on the other hand are in their prime in mid-life. Page-3 girls are rarely above 23, male 40 and 50 something Hollywood celebs (and Paul Hollywood) proudly step out with women 25 years their junior that they clearly have little to nothing in common with and then split and move on to a younger model. This is seen as evidence of 'nature', proof that men are fertile all their lives, that they are subconsciously drawn to young women. That's largely bollocks and has been conveniently used as an excuse to justify men getting away with all that shit for centuries. It's become totally acceptable and normal behaviour and if it was truly disapproved of, nobody would be saying it was 'natural'.

It never seems to be mentioned in the body-hair threads that this is only a public issue because women have the privilege of wearing fewer clothes than men do. If women dressed like men for every occasion except the most casual oneslegs hidden, tops with sleevesthen you'd never know who'd kept their fur and who hadn't. Maybe you can call it a devil's bargain, where it's "Shave your body hair, or stay covered up."

But then, when things are very casual, the men have the advantage. You wouldn't be surprised to see some bloke in the supermarket wearing shorts, and his manly hairy legs on full view. If it were a woman, you'd be more likely to notice (favourably or not).

In a marital situation, it's a man's duty to be accepting. For richer, for poorer, etc. With my body I thee worship.

It never seems to be mentioned in the body-hair threads that this is only a public issue because women have the privilege of wearing fewer clothes than men do.

Sorry, just picked myself off the floor laughing. I have just been to the supermarket and in there and on the way there I witnessed numerous fine specimens of the male variety clad in nothing but a pair of shorts, perusing the fresh food aisle with their moobs on display.
But yeah, such a privilege.

Does your local supermarket really let people in without shirts on? Maybe it's allowed everywhere, and I live in a posh neighbourhood where it just isn't done.

Does your local supermarket really let people in without shirts on?

Yeah.... It's not like there's a guard at the door or anything. The topless men are all over town too.

Also, at parties women might be able to wear less than men, but in law firms I have worked, there was a no bare shoulders rule and bare legs were also frowned on, so it didn't feel much of a privilege having to wear opaque tights in summer. In court etc, both sexes would be expected to wear a suit-jacket. In old-school city practices, women are often told to wear skirts with heels rather than trousers with flats, so yes, body hair would be visible, even if you wore tights, but the clothing is no less restrictive. I knew a fair few women who waxed their arms as well whereas nobody would bat an eyelid at a man with his sleeves rolled up and hairy arms on display. Doesn't feel very privileged to me.

I'm lazy about shaving but being fair and not that hairy legged it's never been a problem. I rarely shave my legs but you can't really tell. I don't do bikini line topiary because it gives me folliculitis. As a GP I see a lot of women with bikini line folliculitis and sometimes feel like a one woman anti shaving propagandist. I usually do my pits but have phases when I rebel and got strange looks from the women at my antenatal aqua aerobics classes as that was one of my anti pit shaving phases.
Now I'm post menopausal I lament the demise of my bush. Cultivate it while you can.
My husband has got in to shaving for his cycling again and is less hairy than me.
I prefer him with hairy legs and he probably prefers me less hairy but we both agree how hairy you are is an individual choice and shouldn't be that important to the other person.
Moustaches are different. If he grows facial hair I know he's wanting out of the marriage. (I keep my facial hair down too, ageing is a bitch)!

zombie thread

I actually posted on this thread 4 years ago the first time around.

It never seems to be mentioned in the body-hair threads that this is only a public issue because women have the privilege of wearing fewer clothes than men do.

I never saw the pressure on women to wear very little clothing as a privilege. Interesting way of looking at things

Outside of certain jobs where a suit is required is there ever a time where men aren't allowed to wear shorts? Dh seems to live in them even in the dead of winter. He certainly never worries about shaving first. He has a sort of yeti appeal. He also occasionally grows a beard because he fancies it and then shaves it off. Almost like no one gives a shit about any of his body hair.

Now I'm post menopausal I lament the demise of my bush. Cultivate it while you can.=

the pressure on women to wear very little clothing

Why is it that when I say "options" someone else reads it as "pressure"? If you don't want to address the issue, I can't force you. Go into any business in the High Street, and you're likely to meet women there dressed for summer--let's say light cotton dresses, bare legs, open-toed shoes, all acceptable in most places these days (but no, probably not in old-fashioned law firms, as PeakPants stated). Meanwhile the men will be in long trousers, solid leather shoes, and maybe ties, though ties aren't as universal as they used to be.

But there is "pressure" on women that men don't have, and of course that is to entertain the world with endless variety in clothing. I keep thinking about that male Australian news presenter who wore the same suit for a year, and nobody said a word. He did it because his female colleague faced constant criticism about her choice of clothes, but of course, if he'd chosen to wear something radically different from his boring blue suit, then imagine the criticism! So there seem to be different kinds of constraint and different kinds of freedom.