Female body hair / husband- help?

[wishfulthinking1]

Since the birth of my son I've considered feminist issues much more deeply- particularly inspired by 'hair:not the musical', I've begun considering hair removal as a choice- and have chosen not to at the the moment.

My lovely husband (and he really is lovely) is struggling with this- says he doesn't find it attractive / is embarrassed when we go swimming etc- he doesn't mean to be ignorant, but he's really struggling with it.

I'm trying to find something for him to read that could help him get his head around it. Most internet searches come up with articles along the lines of 'eww, gross, if your partner loved you, she'd shave blah blah'.

Does anyone have any advice?
Thanks

I don't shave, OP, and I've managed to make it work in my head, despite my well functioning be-femme conditioning. I've cultivated a sense that it's subversive and hyper-adult woman owning her animal body. I honestly assume the double takes at my pits in particular are people totally amazed by how awesome it looks when it's meant to look dreadful.

As a bonus, both my children love a comforting fiddle with a hairy bit of pit. I haven't really discussed it with DP because it just didn't occur to me. I just assumed he'd be into it because it's me, the way I love his style but mainly because it's HIS style.

I haven't always been hairy, I've had phases of shaving. But then I had kids, and I just thought I could in a small way help them feel their choices were easier to honour if they could see me casually ignoring beauty standards. I don't always feel casual about it; it's cultivated.

Most of the time I am happily hairy, but if I am swimming or wearing sleeveless tops etc i will get the epilady out. This is usually connected with going on holiday, so max 2 or 3 times a year. I am just back from a break that involved me epilating before I went. My 3 year old daughter was watching my hair removal. I then continued packing, turned round to see her running the unplugged epilady over her little hair free legs. She thought it was a game and wanted to be like her mum. I felt incredibly sad at that moment. I felt like I was setting a bad example (rightly or wrongly) I am under no illusions about my hair removal, i do it because of cultural norms and expectations of the society I live in. I would love to never feel pressured to remove another hair from my body.

My husband is very hairy and it was one of the physical attributes that originally attracted me to him. In our 2 decades together he has never commented on my hairy legs/pits/pubes. I would be shocked to the core if he did. I would find it very disrespectful. In fact he finds the whole hair removal process annoying as due to arthritis I need some help from him in certain areas, I think he wishes I would just jack it in, but as it is infrequent it is not much of a burden for either of us.

I know myself I will never expose my hairy areas to outside scrutiny as I would feel self conscious. I am annoyed I feel like this, but also accepting of it at the same time.

This thread has triggered lots of ancient memories. Picking up on pp's who have discussed wider societal pressures versus individual freedom of choice.

I remember starting secondary school and the unpleasant combination of having to do PE in old style navy knickers, short hockey skirts and the arrival of bodily hair and periods. My peers where talking about leg hair removal and I went home and asked my mum if I could shave my legs. She gave me a razor and said she would not stop me, but warned ominously "that once you start, you will never stop". I didn't even know what she meant as a 12 year old, now I do. As a child I had watched my mum shave her legs, and therefore this process was normalised for me. This in tandem with peer pressure, not wanting to be different, saw the start of hair removal for me.

I did not make these decisions in a vacuum, none of us do. I am sure issues like, enjoying the smoothness, the look, increased sensitivity during sex are reasons that some women continue to do it but they will not be the reason that it started. How could it be? Before anyone removes body hair for the first time, they cannot know how it will feel.

Therefore the reason it starts has to be rooted in our conditioned behaviour which is culturally rooted.

I don't think whether any of us remove or don't remove our body hair has a bearing on being engaged with the issues of feminism. However wondering and discussing how society has got to this point and why these changes come about is of course of interest.

I've not RTFT. Thanks to you lovely lot - and the onset of Autumn - I have been experimentally not shaving anything for about 2/3 weeks now. Prolific MN threads have really made me think about this. I have found:

• It is really nice not to have to shave stubble all the time. Shaving is a chore.

• My dh has not noticed, or has not said anything, and still finds me sexually attractive.

I doubt I'll keep it up - the next time I go swimming I will shave. Meh - that's the patriarchy for you. It's refreshing though.

Shaska, your post seems aimed at me. Yes I have said I shave because I like the smoothness but nowhere have I said it's not a feminist issue. Intact quote the contrary, I have actually said whilst social pressure to shave doesn't feel an issue for me, I appreciate that it is for others, and that other women only remove hair because they fe social pressures to do so. Just wanted to clarify that, as a lot of my posts seem to have been misinterpreted.

Oh fgs sorry spelling again my phone has a mind of its own. Should be "in fact" and "feel".

Maybe it's even more of a feminist issue because even though I am very aware of feminism and consider myself to have feminist views I still think that shaving is my own choice when, after reading some of the responses, I can see that there must have been some outside influence that started me off with it in the first place. Yes, the reason I continue to shave is because I like the feeling, but perhaps that's not the reason I started all those years ago. (Yes, the penny has dropped before anyone says )

Yeah I reckon so MrsBuffy, I have seen evidence of this viewpoint on the thread

Disclaimer, have not read all of thread. Irishe and blueberry, found your posts interesting reading.
I dont shave much but when I do it is entirely because I dont want people to stare and judge hairy armpits when wearing sleeveless vests or dresses. Though when I see women with hairy legs or pits I think it looks...nice and I cheer secretly.
My mum never shaved (she has black hair) and never wears makeup. I Guess that paved the way for me too! Mixing up the thread about the cost of being a woman now, but I find natural look the most attractive.

Hi Blueberry- yes, I didn't mean to aim it at you as such, just at the general idea that being a fan of smoothness or not appeared to have become quite a key topic for debate in the thread, which seemed silly to me - and thanks for clarifying! I do think that not many women are actively thinking 'oh, must shave as society demands it'- I think it's more complex than that, but no less of an issue for being a complex one!

I think it's more that all the attributes we have come to associate with being hairless (smoothness, softness, bareness, cleanness, coolness, freedom etc) have been sold to us so thoroughly by the marketers of depilatory products that we have internalised them as desirable and feminine. It's the "sell the sizzle not the steak" principle of marketing.

I think, unfortunately Blueberry, that some of your posts were similar and at a similar time as another poster (although significantly less arsey) and it may have seemed to you that terse replies that were directed at the other poster were actually at you. Which then brought terse actually directed at you replies.

My initial response about smoothness upthread was a direct response to FB but you responded as thought it were to you. Anyway glad you've decided to join the borg though it's never a choice to join the borg

Don't tend to shave my pits over the winter

Was sat with my arms over my head next to ds2 (11) and he said

"You need to shave mummy"

So I thought excellent!!! Now is a good time to talk about feminism, and sexism and society pressures!!! So I said

Me "Why?"

Ds2 " because you have hairy arm pits"

Me " well men have hairy armpits"

Ds2 " well they should shave as well"

Me "but men don't shave, they don't have to"

Ds2 " I think you are being a bit sexist there mummy"

ultimate fail

Reading back, I think you're probably right, Ferret.

Rufus that made me chuckle, sorry! I can just imagine you like "but.. but... Damn it!"

Ds2 " I think you are being a bit sexist there mummy"

Genuine out loud snort!

(blueberry, I didn't respond to your PM because it sent it to a name change of mine for some reason! but and to you :)

I'm trying to think what it was but it was feminism related and dh caught me out and I was actually like "but.. but... Damn it!"

He looked properly smug too bastard. We need a smug emoticon

I was a bit lost for words put it that way!!

You're really not doing any favours to "feminists" with your condescending attitude ladies. Stop being so angry and aggressive. Cliched as it sounds, women really are their own worst enemy aren't they? When you can't even hold a civilised discussion without the bitchy and patronising remarks when someone disagrees with you.

Really? You are on a thread on a feminist board and you don't see the problem with telling feminists that they should be less angry and aggressive. That they should in effect, act more lady like? That they are doing feminism all wrong? [facepalm] However, we've taken on board your comments and have already got new leadership in place. I hope you'll be more satisfied with feminism discussions in future.

However, you raised an interesting point Fakebook earlier in the thread:
As for women not removing hair 50 years ago...isn't that a bit strange? Women had less rights back then and I would think it was more of a patriarchal society than it is now, yet women are removing body hair more now than back then.

I have wondered this myself, not so much around personal grooming, but about the increase segregation between toys and clothes for girls and boys than there was even 30-40 years ago. There seems to be a huge pressure for even young babies to be easily identified as being male or female. This is happening at the same time as women having equality, and homosexuality being more accepted. And yet, it feels very subversive to give a boy a pink pram/doll/etc. I don't know whether the blue/pink separation it is just a current fashion which will pass, or whether it will get worse and is caused by how pervasive marketing is.

The other interesting point for me was brought up in the discussion with BlueberryWafer and is about why some women on some issues are able to subvert cultural expectations and whether because that is the experience for some women, whether that negates the experience of others that social pressure to conform is very strong. I wonder if the answer to this is that even if women who choose not to remove their body hair, they are still judged by the beauty standard that they are subverting and risk social acceptance by doing so.

It feels similar to the idea that if one woman can make it in a male dominated sector then clearly any woman could and if they don't then it is because they don't want to. Sorry for rambling, I'm thinking out loud.

I don't remove most of my body hair. I tried shaving sometimes as a teenager, but hated the feel of stubble so stopped (so can understand that others liked the feeling of being smooth so carried on). But although I can choose not to remove hair, I do feel self-conscious about it on occasions it is on display. I didn't make a post about whether to remove hair before childbirth (and indeed before having sex the first time), but I did worry about whether I would be judged for not doing so and whether it was expected. I do remove hair from my upper lip and chin because it feels unattractive and unfeminine

I should say it's at the same time as women being told they already have equality (I don't think we're quite there yet!)

I think there are cheaper toys and more materials so buying one in blue and one in pink is more affordable.

Plus many more ads etc to be justified by selling more product!

Eh? You've lost me YonicScrewdriver

There is a pink/blue thread on FWR somewhere. I think someone has missposted..

I think Yonic was responding to my comment which was that it's hard for me to understand why some cultural expectations of gender (including both the topic at hand - hair removal - and another example -the toys we give children) seem to be more onerous and rigid than in the past despite women ostensibly having more equality of opportunity in education, careers and rights than we had before (and despite greater acceptance of homosexuality, there still seems to be a lot of worry about boys being feminine or interested in traditionally female pursuits).

I mean we appear to be playing gender all the more when really it ought to matter less.