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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

37 year old man here

323 replies

BlueStahli · 28/09/2014 20:11

Hello,

I'm a 37 year old male, married, with two children--a boy and a girl.

I've always had an issue with sexism. But only recently have I been delving headlong into it. I've been researching facts and studies, talking to people, getting opinions, and voicing my own views. In the process, I stumbled across this site. So I joined. I hope to learn much here. Needless to say, I'll be spending most of my time hanging out in the feminism forum.

My reasons for being here are three-fold:

  1. I want facts! I want to know how sexism and discrimination have been measured/studied scientifically and what results have been found. I want to know what kinds of government policies and human rights have been instated (or removed) and where in the world this has happened. I'm tired of anecdotal stories and questioning how biased people's claims are and I feel I'm ready to take a position on more secure grounds--but I need to build those grounds first.

  2. I feel I can contribute much to feminism by offering a man's perspective. I wear my heart of my sleeve and I'm not afraid to reveal personal information. But I also feel that if I'm going to give my perspective on certain issues, I'm going to have to earn the right to do it first (so you won't get it in my first post :)). I'm confident that I can do this in a constructive/non-offensive way, and if I ever do step out of line (never advertently), I'm open to being corrected. Ultimately, I feel that if two groups are trying to settle their differences, there's no better way than to hear the perspectives on both sides.

  3. I've got issues! :) I really do! Like I said, I've always had issues with sexism, and lately I've been on a self-induced "therapy kick". I've been forcing myself to "get over it". Diving into the issue with other peopleother womenis how I'm doing it. I don't think I'll ever be "cured" of my issues, but if I'm going to be stuck with them, I figure I might as well have them for the right reasons (i.e. educating myself--as in #1 above).

So that's my spiel.

So first order of business: I'd like to ask if there are any males on this forum--particularly ones that frequent the feminism forum. I'd like to ask their advice on how a man conducts himself on a forum devote to moms and feminism.

Thanks :)

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 00:22

"In 2011 the conviction rate for rape against a female was 39.7%, just below the 45.2% rate for rape against a male. The aggregate rate across all sexual offences was 60.3%."

YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 00:23

Link for that quote:

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/11/male-female-rape-statistics-graphic

ouryve · 30/09/2014 00:23

The false accusation for rape is similar to that of other crimes: between 3 and 8%; indeed, I believe it is at the lower end of that range.

And I'd love to know how many women keep it quiet and don't mention it to anyone. They probably far outnumber that 3% who make false accusations.

YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 00:25

Yy.

KulamLobeseder · 30/09/2014 00:25

I am always bemused by folk who complain about some of the ways societal conditioning disadvantage men as if it were the fault of feminists. Seriously, kujo, how did women contrive to make men commit suicide more than women? How did we arrange for men to not be able to discuss their feelings or feel comfortable seeking help with medical issues? No-one is denying that any of the things you say are true (except the bit where you think sexual assault stats are incorrect). Our hyper-masculinised/feminised society hurts men as well as women. Feminists recognise and oppose this. So please, what's your point and what would you like us to do about it that we aren't already doing?

scallopsrgreat · 30/09/2014 00:27

And of course the number of men who rape, who also lie about raping is pretty much 100%. Men lie all the time about rape. Even if they haven't committed a rape they still lie about.

As seen by this thread.

YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 00:31

The study released on Wednesday by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) reveals that during the 17-month test period – when all false allegation cases were referred to the DPP – there were 5,651 prosecutions for rape and 111,891 for domestic violence in England and Wales.
By comparison, over the same timespan, there were only 35 prosecutions for making false allegations of rape, six for false allegations of domestic violence and three that involved false allegations of both rape and domestic violence.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/13/rape-investigations-belief-false-accusations

PetulaGordino · 30/09/2014 00:31

Absolutely kulam. It's baffling.

It always feels like being told "women! You took the spotlight away from the men! Return it forthwith!"

neiljames77 · 30/09/2014 00:35

kujopiya Surely then if these are the attitudes that are prevalent in society, then there needs to be a change.
If a man wrote on here that he was a victim of domestic violence, he wouldn't get posters saying, "you must have provoked her "
He'd be encouraged to report it.
The fact that he'd feel too ashamed to tells you that the status quo is wrong.
It's not down to men v women, them and us. Equality would be beneficial for all concerned as it would address the concerns you've raised.
What you're highlighting in essence, is the consequences of a patriarchal society.
You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction.

AnyFucker · 30/09/2014 00:41

no no neil, that makes far too much sense !

YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 00:55

Night all!

ItIsAllAConspiracy · 30/09/2014 01:14

Kujopiya

The British Crime Survey (2006-2007) found that 1 in 200 women were raped in that year alone [http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/07/rape_a_complex_crime.html]. A 2009 NSPCC study found a third of girls (not women girls) had experienced sexual violence [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17251461]. Figures that can definitely translate to 1 in 4 in their lifetime, it's late and I will hunt more firm figures I'm the morning.

You quote a Ms, magazine study, I can't find this study but I can find a 2007 National Institute of Justice Study that found 19% of college women experienced rape or attempted rape at college [https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf]. This has been criticised as allowing an overly broad view of rape including "rape" when alcohol was involved and the insinuation that it was regretted drunken sex. As my rape was discounted by the police as regretted drunken sex I would not discount these figures. FYI had a male Uni friend stay in my town before his job interview, we shared a pizza and a 4 pack of Heineken before I showed him the spare room. I woke up pinned to the bed by this 6 ft 5 built man, I couldn't move as he raped me. It was premeditated as he had sent text messages to mutual friends saying I was dressed up and all over him. I had no makeup, greasy hair scraped back, my geeky glasses and my painting clothes as I was redecorating. The police basically told me they didn't believe me and smirked and told me they were glad I saw sense before leaving. I was clearly a drunken slapper who just regretted consensual sea.

Most homeless are men.

Most suicide victims are men.

Most prisoners are men.

Girls/women are encouraged to seek help/support/cry if they so need. Boys/men are told to "man up".

e.g., A women is upset? People will talk to her, show sympathy, try to understand, be there for her. A man is upset? People will laugh in his face and tell him he isn't a man.

Girls/women are encouraged to look after their health and visit a GP and get checks etc. If a boy/man is ill they are simply told to "take it like a man".

Feminists are actively working to improve the situation for men by fighting patriarchal dogma. We believe that men should be able to talk about their feelings, gain access and support and have their needs met as human beings. Take it like a man is the voice of the patriarchy. Us feminists would love to see men talking about their feelings, reduced male suicides and having men more involved with child rearing. We are not man hating lesbians. I love men, I love my partner, my three brothers and my 5 nephews. I am a feminist as I was a better world for them too!

Now if the MRAs actually give a shit about men can they start supporting men over the big issues rather than just hating on feminists. Have conferences and campaigns on how men and boys can be encouraged to talk about their feelings, open up and get help where needed. Stop spending all your time bitching about feminists, if you were remotely interested in helping vulnerable men you would be amazed at the feminist support. But you never are about truly helping men, only punishing women. Yet you have the nerve to call feminists twisted.

Do you think men would be taken more seriously if they reported a sex crime committed against them? I don't. IMO I think a man would be laughed out of court.

No they wouldn't there are reports of a young man being raped at Oktoberfest, every comment and coverage is sympathetic. No one is questioning what a drunk man expects when he goes for a piss in the bushes. It is categorically not his fault. We don't hear about the women raped at Oktoberfest as the slags were clearly asking for it.

Hope this helps.

SpaceStation · 30/09/2014 09:26

Brilliant post conspiracy.

Sorry about what happened to you. Of course, anecdotal evidence is not the same as "scientific fact", but the recorded, collected "facts" on rape and sexual assault massively underestimate the figures for exactly the types of reasons you describe. Then, because women know they risk getting that reaction, they often don't even report.

Whenever I've been close enough to a female friend to disclose the sexual abuse I suffered growing up, more than half have shared their own experience of sexual assault or rape. That's why the 1 in 4 figure doesn't surprise me at all ... except that it too is probably an underestimate.

I've also experienced attempted rape, which is actually a serious crime, but because it was someone I was seeing at the time, and luckily for me in that instance, I was stronger then him and able to push him off, it just didn't even register. I had so completely internalised the narrative that it isn't really rape if it's a boyfriend, it isn't really rape if you're already in bed together, it doesn't really count unless someone leaps out at you in a dark alley (and even then it's probably your fault for wearing a skirt) ... it didn't sink in until much later.

If the statistics were actually accurate, crimes like that would be on them. But they happen over and over and women often just endure them and put up with them, blame themselves or put it down to experience.

gincamparidryvermouth · 30/09/2014 10:30

I'm very impressed at kujo's ability to type whilst simultaneously cramming red pills into his mouth as fast as he can with both hands.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 30/09/2014 12:24

Why is Kujo able to have messages withdrawn at his/her request? The thread makes no sense now.

I've previously requested this at MNHQ (posts that I've regretted because they contained personal info and were too emotional) and been told no, because the thread would lose its meaning.

Why can Kujo do this?

AnyFucker · 30/09/2014 12:27

"removed at posters request"

why ?

PetulaGordino · 30/09/2014 12:29

i think sometimes MNHQ put the wrong deletion message. i recently requested that a post of mine be withdrawn and they did so but put the "breaks talk guidelines" message (it didn't) - the withdrawal message would have been correct

they may have decided that kujo is a troll and have deleted on that basis but have put the wrong message

or it may be correct and kujo has asked for the posts to be withdrawn - you could report and request clarification?

AnyFucker · 30/09/2014 12:29

I think that deletion message must be a mistake. It doesn't tally with the email response to my reporting of that poster.

YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 13:23

Agree it's the wrong deletion message!

BrewsterToo · 30/09/2014 14:21

Did BlueStahli namechange to Kujo after he didn't get the response he wanted, and tried different way to get that valuable "male perspective" across?

PetulaGordino · 30/09/2014 14:28

maybe. or he went and licked his wounds/complained on reddit (or similar) and someone came over to defend his honour

BuffyBotRebooted · 30/09/2014 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 30/09/2014 14:36

Perhaps he realised he had forgotten to pay his child support and dashed off to do it sharpish

DoctorTwo · 30/09/2014 15:02

Maybe he had them withdrawn because he was made to look stupid. TBF like, it didn't take much doing.

Bifauxnen · 30/09/2014 15:24

I like to think MNHQ have implemented something like this...
xkcd.com/481/