37 year old man here

[BlueStahli]

Hello,

I'm a 37 year old male, married, with two children--a boy and a girl.

I've always had an issue with sexism. But only recently have I been delving headlong into it. I've been researching facts and studies, talking to people, getting opinions, and voicing my own views. In the process, I stumbled across this site. So I joined. I hope to learn much here. Needless to say, I'll be spending most of my time hanging out in the feminism forum.

My reasons for being here are three-fold:

1. I want facts! I want to know how sexism and discrimination have been measured/studied scientifically and what results have been found. I want to know what kinds of government policies and human rights have been instated (or removed) and where in the world this has happened. I'm tired of anecdotal stories and questioning how biased people's claims are and I feel I'm ready to take a position on more secure grounds--but I need to build those grounds first.

2. I feel I can contribute much to feminism by offering a man's perspective. I wear my heart of my sleeve and I'm not afraid to reveal personal information. But I also feel that if I'm going to give my perspective on certain issues, I'm going to have to earn the right to do it first (so you won't get it in my first post :)). I'm confident that I can do this in a constructive/non-offensive way, and if I ever do step out of line (never advertently), I'm open to being corrected. Ultimately, I feel that if two groups are trying to settle their differences, there's no better way than to hear the perspectives on both sides.

3. I've got issues! :) I really do! Like I said, I've always had issues with sexism, and lately I've been on a self-induced "therapy kick". I've been forcing myself to "get over it". Diving into the issue with other peopleother womenis how I'm doing it. I don't think I'll ever be "cured" of my issues, but if I'm going to be stuck with them, I figure I might as well have them for the right reasons (i.e. educating myself--as in #1 above).

So that's my spiel.

So first order of business: I'd like to ask if there are any males on this forum--particularly ones that frequent the feminism forum. I'd like to ask their advice on how a man conducts himself on a forum devote to moms and feminism.

Thanks :)

Fucking hell, number 2) made me laugh, oh the irony. Classic.

I am happy for a man to share his opinion on here (not so happy when he is sexist twat that often frequent on here)

but I am not happy a man coming on and thinking because he is a man he brings a male perspective to us and that makes a difference

why should it

I am not one for elevating the 'male perspective' on feminism generally, but I'd like to thank Falafel for that post. You get it, so cheers for that.

Silly Slipper, because surely us laydeez can't figure it all out by ourselves! Our pretty little heads would explode!

Cheers for falafel and the reminder from his post that there are men out there who get it.

Hopefully you've got the message, OP! Feel free to start posting as a person with an interest in feminism on any thread that grabs you - I've learnt a lot by reading threads, asking the odd question, reading links and books.

I'm incredibly pleased to be welcoming a male poster here :) Welcome, falafel, and thanks for your post!

I forget

silly silly me oh I am so so silly

that's a great post, falafel

Just want to echo the 'great post falafel' comments.

A man who experiences comparatively less sexism than any of the females on this forum wants to come in as give us his perspective. That's like a caucasian person spouting forth on the racism. What are your credentials OP? What makes you uniquely placed to make any comments on sexism when you are not its primary target? Unless you want to regale us with revelations on how you have been sexist in the past, and what you are going to do to remedy the sexism you, yourself, have created, you are going to get short shrift here. Your OP smacks of entitlement. Here, have a .

OP I hope you stay and understand all the different reasons why your post has caused such a reaction.

My interpretation: being male, you automatically assume you have something to add to the discussion. After all, why wouldn't you? Society has always upheld your right to be heard. And you naturally assume that your input will be welcome. It always has been in the past, most places you go (which will predominantly have been male-oriented places, as that's how the world is structured).

These assumptions are incorrect. You don't have a right to be listened to just because you turned up. You don't deserve any automatic respect just because you opened your mouth (keyboard). You have to earn these things.

Falafel gets it.

Good post, Gravitas.

Wonder if OP will be back

OP, you don't really need scientific papers, although they may be interesting. You're living in the sexist world, day in, day out - all you have to do is notice. It's everywhere. Feminism isn't an obscure backwater of thought that needs to be investigated to be understood, like the DNA of trilobites. It's really about seeking equality between men and women in everyday life, in all the ways that it currently doesn't happen, and those ways are right under your nose all the time - from children's toys and clothes, to pay gaps at work, to domestic violence and rape statistics, to the ways women and men present and evaluate themselves.

However, I don't think sexism only applies to women - it also affects men, and limits men, so there's a starting point - how sexism affects you and limits what you can do and how you feel you can behave.

Sexism also doesn't just come from men - it's a societal force that many of us, male and female, act to reinforce, sometimes not consciously. Trying to think about how and why that happens and counteract it is important and one of the things that gets discussed a lot on here. Not in a "let's discuss X scientifically" way so much, but in response to people's dilemmas – for example, someone will have a dilemma and others will raise the issue of whether a man would face the same problems, or why a woman is living in a situation where a male partner is trying to control her, or why she is being treated differently from a man at work, etc.

The personal is the political, as they say.

Yes Gravitas, indeed.

If you are well meaning but clumsy OP, google the computer game analogy (clue: you are playing on the lowest difficulty setting). Read some books. Change your username and join some discussions. Don't assume that we need a male perspective on things, believe me, that is not lacking in our life experience.

Falafel - why not post a bit more? You sound like you get it. There's plenty to join in with.

That "show me the evidence" / "where is the scientific research?" is such posturing bullshit. There is a huge body of serious work and objective data on gender inequality and sexism dating back 200+ years. It is not difficult to find. Well researched books are published by well known authors. Academics write fully referenced papers. Newspapers print articles, surveys and reports every day of the week.

But no, that doesn't suit the 'sexism is all in your fluffy, emotional lady brain' narrative.

Also wanted to say thats an excellent post falafel.

Ultimately, I feel that if two groups are trying to settle their differences, there's no better way than to hear the perspectives on both sides

Um, feminism isn't about men versus women, it's about sexists versus non sexists. So, if as you say you're not a sexist, your perspective is no more valuable than any of the other non sexists on this board.

Your post is annoying because it makes a big song and dance about you. Especially the fact that you're a male feminist.

If you think about it, suggesting that male feminists somehow have something different and extra to contribute compared with female feminists, is itself a sexist viewpoint. See?

If you're still here, Blue, could you perhaps enlighten me as to what the hell Point 3 is all about? You're on a "therapy kick", trying to "get over it" by diving in with women?

Sounds like you've taken up synchronised swimming. Well, either that or some fool told you it's easier to get laid if you act all feministy.

By "I've always had issues with sexism", do you mean "I am a sexist", by any chance?

I feel I can contribute much to feminism by offering a man's perspective.

Priceless.

I would love to hear what the OPs considered response to the response. I'm hoping it's not the usual throwing toys out of pram...

BlueStahli wrote - "if two groups are trying to settle their differences, there's no better way than to hear the perspectives on both sides."

For many decades, male-dominated patriarchy has expected feminists to "debate" whether or not women should be liberated from male-dominated patriarchal oppression. I've created the short dialogue below to summarise how I think this debate usually goes. I hope it shows that hearing perspectives on both sides has so far given women a bad deal. Therefore, I think there may be better ways to liberate women than hearing most men's perspective on women's oppression and women's liberation.

Feminist : "Male-dominated patriarchy oppresses women because of A, B, C and D. Please stop oppressing women."

Male-dominated patriarchy: "Actually, we think you'll find that patriarchy oppresses women only because of A and B" or, more likely, "You're imagining your oppression. We don't oppress women at all."

Feminist: "Stop oppressing women, please."

Male-dominated patriarchy: "If push comes to shove, we could probably stop doing A, but we'll expect a favour in return to make it worth our while. We really like doing B, C and D, so we'll continue doing those. You'll lose one method of being oppressed and we'll keep three ways of oppressing you, so we're equal now. You know it's only fair to meet us half-way. You're only oppressed by B, C and D now, so it's win-win for everybody! Happy now? Have we got a deal?"