How women act differently in the presence of men

[msrisotto]

This was discussed briefly on a trans thread. I read it a couple of weeks ago and it has played on my mind since.

I'd like it if people could share their experiences of this. Before reading it, I didn't think being in the presence of men changed anything about me and other females but thinking about it more....it does. Examples:

When I have 'the girls' over for dinner or something, I hint heavily that DH goes to the cinema or out to see friends too. He does. Why do I do this? Him being in the house changes the topics we talk about, how raucous we become etc etc

When I spend time with my sister, I try to make it an activity that excludes her husband (and mine tbf). Things are different when he's there, she's different and I assume I am too.

In a work context - I work in a female dominated field. When meetings are female only they are completely different to when there are any men in them. I watch my colleagues (women) look to the men to respond to questions and topics that they are more than qualified to take the lead on themselves. And I always see the men talking over the women.

Have you noticed this?

It wasn't, but that one is good. I can't find it.

bat - yes, I notice that.

It definitely makes a big difference to me online. I find it very intrusive when a man butts in to a thread that's previously been all women, expecting to be interacted with in a similar way.

I feel that online women tend to want to leave a comment but men want everyone to actively engage with them and, thereby, make the thread all about them. Do you think there will be facial-recognition technology (or something like that) in a few years time which would allow websites to become women-only spaces? That would be great.

I agree about how we talk about different topics in female company.

I work in a male dominated office. On the rare occasion we have a female only meeting the dynamic is very different. Much much more respectful. Less talking over each other and also we can make fun of ourselves in a safe way. I mean not nastily, not in a way that we lose face with the others in the room and in a way that is familiar to us.

I am also part of a Women's Forum at work and they are similar. If you are speaking and perhaps having difficulty articulating what you mean they won't fill in the gaps but encourage you along that path and give you time to get your words out. And give you time to speak in the first place.

With female friends I immediately feel more relaxed. I'm not nervous about having a couple of drinks with them for example. (I've only noticed that recently how I watch my drink in the presence on men. Probably a legacy from a previous relationship). And I can moan. And they don't have the solutions to all my problems on tap for me to follow. To the letter .

And I agree about online and men butting in. Definitely. Also it can be instantly noticeable even if you didn't know they were a man. Different tone going on.

i don't mind men on MN (how could i really - if they are parents they have more "right" to post here than i do), but i do like that it is a place that men are cautious about when it comes to posting

we have a women's network at work. men complained about it being exclusively women. so now it's still called the women's network but it's for men too

I have a feeling that there might be a couple of radical feminists in our Women's Forum . Certainly more than a few that value women's only spaces.

Im going to be the odd one out here and say I don't behave any differently- consciously at least.

For me it's about how well I know the person, not whether they're male or female.

I was in a mixed class at school which had some very open and frank sexual discussions- I think that was about the teachers ability to run such a discussion rather.

I am a classic introvert though- I don't like large groups of people, "girls nights" etc, I like to go out with people I know well and can talk to. If I do go out it's normally as a mixed group and nothing happens that wouldn't have in a single sex group.

I actually feel more comfortable in male company (I'm female BTW). I left school with very few female friends and my friends at Uni were almost exclusively men. My all-female hall of residence was one of the most unfriendly bitchy horrifically judgy places on earth. Not fun. I worked in a hugely male-dominated profession, regularly being the only female in the meeting (and the youngest) and it never bothered me, I was always comfortable.

I usually feel very uneasy in the company of women, though over the years I've learned to modify my behaviours and moderate my natural personality in order to appeal to a more typical female way of 'being'. I feel judged and unwelcome when I'm new to a group of women.

My male friends are so much more fun. I seem to share their type of humour and the easiness with which we can be in each others company.

In my work I do notice the difference between male and female approaches. The most noticeable is a woman's heightened ability to read the mood and emotions of another person. I have been in meetings where my male boss is steadily crushing the trust of the client on the other side and with it our best way of negotiation and he will have no clue. Or juniors who are clearly struggling - men will just bat on and not see this. Women naturally feel it and provide pastoral care much more freely. I have also seen the hideous sexist nature of my profession and how engrained it is.....but that's a whole different thread.

I'm definitely aware that I act differently in the presence of men than women but I would say my natural self and comfort zone are much closer to the former than latter. I'm not sure what that says but thought I would share.

When a man walks into a previously all-female space, everyone goes quiet and looks at the man.

I can almost always tell if a poster is male or female from their posting style. So not just the ones who have usernames like AmazingDad or who announce themselves with "speaking as a man ... "

I don't think it's a matter of female / mixed groups being better or worse - preferring them or not - it's just different isn't it.

Which I genuinely didn't even notice until I had that conversation with my colleague in the bogs.

I was at an event this week, and tasked with getting interviews with several Famous People. Naturally, everyone wanted to talk to them, so I hovered politely nearby and waited for the current interviewer to finish before approaching.

And, every time I introduced myself to FP, I got cut off almost instantly by one or other tall, bolshy bloke with a cursory "Sorry to interrupt! So, Famous Person ..."

Not sure if this was because I am little, or female, or both. I can't imagine ever barging in like that myself, but watching other people, it seemed that most of the men thought nothing of it.

I do behave differently too, but am more outspoken and relaxed in the company of men. Which is handy as work in very male environment. I put it down to my father being my most influential parent and loads and loads of bullying from girls at school. I find I am silenced by groups of other women and always feel judged and feel wanting in some way.

It's interesting isn't it.
For me the difference is in what gets talked about. Reminiscing about being flashed at, telling stories of awful blokes doing XYZ, and stuff around menstruation, menopause, damage after giving birth are things that get talked about in a different way when it's just women, to if it's a mixed group, if they even get talked about at all in a mixed group.

I have no idea how men behave when there are no women in sight, whether there is a difference or not etc and wouldn't presume to know TBH. Probably though, right?

I belong to a women-only expat support group where I live in Germany and it's really incredible. Husbands/partners are sometimes invited to things but the facebook page for example is so open and some of the meet ups too. It's a lifeline especially as some of the women are "trailing spouses" or there are issues particular to having a German husband or an Italian husband or just generally raising children away from family support and in an entirely new culture and language a lot of the time.

I felt judged and stuff by girls at school but thankfully since then, i've not had to hang around with bitches. I tend to hang out with female relatives or friends. Maybe my female work colleagues are unusually nice. I have had the odd crazy female boss, but that's work isn't it. Had weird male bosses too.

I think my body language is more relaxed TBH, thinking about it.

Although DH is here now and my body language is pretty relaxed - feet up on the sofa, laptop on lap and a bit of kitchen roll up one nostril as my nose keeps running Although, that's a family thing isn't it. Families are different irrespective of sex really, a different dynamic again entirely mostly.

You see I find groups of women quite dull when it's all sitting around talking about cake and diets and stuff. I'm not naturally a "woman's woman" IYKWIM I've always got on well with people I guess but have always had a lot of male friends as well as female ones. Not to say that groups of men aren't dull but when I've been with them it's generally in the pub and everything seems more interesting when the beer's flowing

To be fair, there are a few male posters on MN who I didn't realise were men for years. They are regulars though, and immerse themselves in the culture of the boards, offering genuine support and commentary. There are also regulars who are "out" as men by their usernames, and are perfectly reasonable. There are, however, FAR too many blokes who drop in and expect to be given special attention for no other reason than that they are male. It depresses the hell out of me that there are so many women happy to indulge them- I can't help but think "Fuck off, we were having a nice time before it turned into The Penis Pander Show".

IME men are much more crude, competitive and banter-y to a really ridiculous level when they think there are no women about and even the men who generally seem OK/respectful/tend to stand up for women when women are around can show another side. It's quite disturbing actually how quickly they revert to sexism. You can see it in army blokes when they get together, they tend to have a filter for "I'm alone with non-army people" but when one of their buddies turns up who they are used to only seeing in that all-male setting the filter goes quite quickly. Or the other way I've witnessed this kind of thing is after hours in an Irish bar abroad, I was the only woman at one part of the bar and I think they all thought I was drunk so they reverted then, quite jarring, a bloke who had previously been talking to me as a general human interested in another human suddenly started referring to all women as indiscriminate objects.

The programme Jackass is very close to how men behave with men too IME. I mean obviously it's not all "how hard can you whack your balls with this hammer" but it's all this weird stuff that 8 year olds do in the playground.