Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

I don't think anyone has said they don't care about the issues that some men face have they? It's just that they place more importance on the issues women are facing, as they're women.

There are plenty of issues I care about, but I can't campaign actively for all of them, I'd have no time for anything else!

"My apologies if that assumption was correct, but didn't you suggest that you would fear for your personal safety if you posted on MRA forums, and therefore couldn't engage them in a discussion which challenged their views? "

NO she said that she HAD posted in discussions with MRAs and HAD received threats and so she didn't want to do it any more.

Can;t you read?

You sure as fuck can't construct a coherent argument.

But I mean, seriously, you've got to be taking the piss. Your posts don't even make sense and yet you're so earnest about it.

BuffyBotRebooted
I don't really see how that's relevant. If we do want to compare the two situations (although I think the grounds for doing so are very weak) then it would follow that only those affected by cancer should devote their energy to fighting cancer, and vice versa with malaria. What's wrong with being concerned with both?

PetulaGordino
This is also irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and I'm not going to justify myself to you. My arguments would be just as valid or invalid regardless of the level of my activism regarding global violence against women, so it would be pointless to list my activity in this area.

Petula

"What are you doing about global violence against women?"

Alternatively we could ask him:

"What are you doing about global violence against men?"

And the answer, I suspect, would be the same.

When it comes to female on male violence, which I also find abhorrent, I feel that we should listen to the OP and follow the sterling example of MRAs with male on female violence:

IT'S NOT ALL WOMEN, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Not tried this tactic before but seeing how women are getting it all wrong I thought I'd give it a go. How was it OP has it helped?

SevenZarkSeven - really? I was hoping everyone from that time had moved on. Not because I would wish any lovely feminist should ever leave FWR, but for the preservation of my own sorry pride!

Just one more point I want to make, before I have to get back to real life.

I will be as bold to say that MRAs have almost certainly never experienced the issues that the men they claim to speak for have. I know my brother believe that too.

Thanks seven. I'm certainly not going to do it again for the benefit of someone who thinks goading feminists of an evening is a worthwhile activity

"We do not require your approval to continue working for our own liberation in the way that we see fit."

I'm getting this on a fucking T shirt.

Annie, have you got the numbers about women and girls dying each year in childbirth or in complications from childbirth such as fistulae? Or from botched abortions? Those dying from FGM, either when it's done, or when they first have sex, or when they later give birth? Those dying in India after being raped for the crime of being girls or women in the wrong place at the wrong time? Those killed by their family members for dishonouring them in some manner?

But, y'know, insurance premiums.

SevenZarkSeven

Again, so needlessly rude. I happily admit that I missed that post, so thank you for directing my attention towards it. Now that I'm more informed, I would say that she is quite right to withdraw from such debates if she feels her personal safety is at risk. However, it is easy to be anonymous on an online forum, so perhaps (if she had an interest in doing so but was worried about it otherwise) she could still take part in the debates. I'm glad that you agree that men can be oppressed too, even if you show a disregard for the lived experiences of men who don't fit your definition of those who can be oppressed. Should feminists concern themselves with the men who you believe are oppressed?

TessOfTheFurbyvilles

Well actually some have, but not you. I agree that we can't effectively campaign for all the issues we care about, so focus on those most salient to us. Hypothetically, if you did have the time to do so, would you include campaigns for any men's issues within your feminist activism? Also, if you have no problem with people campaigning only for those issues most salient to them, what's the problem with MRAs? (I accept you might have no problem with them, but there is a lot of hatred towards them from some feminist groups, which was the point of the OP).

I'm so sorry OP. I misunderstood you when you asked why feminists weren't working on men's rights. I thought you might at least want to let us know what you're doing for one of the biggest problems women face, which is men's violence, in the spirit of working together on issues. But I realise now that that is entirely unreasonable and irrational of me.

Well exactly, who needs his approval?

X posted, Petula.

I'm too full of horror cold to contribute more than this. When it comes to MRAs.

BuffyBotRebuted

I've got no problem with people being rude to me, I just think it's irrelevant and therefore has no place in this thread. Why was my congratulations repellant? I was being genuine. Would it be easier if I abandoned politeness and sunk to the level of name-calling, so that I'd more closely represent the stereotype of someone who disagrees with your opinion?

My problem with using cancer/malaria as a comparison is that it does not take into account any systematic power imbalances, it will not necessarily affect everyone, and there are more than two diseases. For those reasons I think that those sorts of comparisons are not useful.

However, it is easy to be anonymous on an online forum, so perhaps (if she had an interest in doing so but was worried about it otherwise) she could still take part in the debates.

Yup. Because, you know, it makes me feel much better about receiving rape and death threats when I'm anonymous.

"What are you doing about global violence against women?"

This. So what are you doing about it? You seem to want us to campaign for men's 'rights'. Seems only fair you do the same for women.

Apparently I'm also too ill to check what I'm uploading because that was not what I picked. FFS.

Gives up.

Sorry but there is no debate nor interesting point raising to be had here. I reported OP as goady MRA type hours ago. It's a waste of oxygen and typing really. I would support a free wine for feminists campaign instead of wasting precious time on this goady fucker.

Were you trying for the "Behold, a man has arrived" picture?

PetualGordino

There's no need to exaggerate, I did not suggest that it was unreasonable or irrational. I was just making the point that my character and actions don't affect the quality (or lack thereof) of my argument at all. That's all.

BuffyBotRebuted

I'm ok for you to work exclusively on them, but as I've said from the very first post, I think the hatred against MRAs is completely unwarranted, and the ideal solution involves men and women working together for all gender issues. I don't see why that's such an offensive viewpoint. At the risk of making one inference too many, I think you're basing your whole views of the movement on the actions of a misogynistic minority. There's a great diversity of opinion within feminist thought, and we should accept that the same applies to other interest groups.