Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

Why should we have to win you over? Is that what you came here for?

SevenZarkSeven
That's a valid question, and something I'm also concerned about. In my opinion it's because men interested in gender equality have been made to feel unwelcome in feminist groups, and develop something of a "Well fuck you too" attitude on women's issues. That's why I support both groups recognizing both sets of issues.

Why do we need to win you over, OP?

I thought you came here to win us over?

You seem confused in your aim.

None of us think we will be able to "win you over" as we know what you are, and why you're here.

We are posting for the benefit of lurkers, as stated by annie, and in all truth because it's hard nto to respond when someone charges into your space and pokes you with a giant fucking great goady stick.

Bless you. Win you over? How or why would we bother? You've had your questions answered, repeatedly and, like all MRAs you don't listen because you don't have to. This is male privilege in action.

I'm not surprised the groups at your uni split. Women's voices are heard less in mixed groups, and with voices like your ill informed one in the mix, I suspect the only answer, if the women wanted their voices heard was to take them away from yours.

So let's look at this conscription thing that MRAs always want to talk to women about.

You need to speak to other men about it. They are the ones in charge of wars. Get a movement going against it and women will back you.

LaVoix - he doesn't believe that ONLY men should campaign about the issue, he believes it is their responsibility to initiate such a campaign, as opposed to riding on the coattails of feminism.

He founded a support group in his area, after he struggled to access services after his experience, he took the initiative rather than just whinge about how unfair it all was.

And guess what - a local domestic abuse service for women actually offered him some advice when he was getting started - they supported what he was doing?!

So I said:

"LaVoix out of interest why do MRAs always focus on female on male DV / sexual violence and never (IME) mention male on male DV / sexual violence?"

And LaVoix said:

"That's a valid question, and something I'm also concerned about. In my opinion it's because men interested in gender equality have been made to feel unwelcome in feminist groups"

You think that MRAs are not interested in male on male DV / sexual violence, because feminists have been mean?

I thought you were the voice of logic here?

I was thinking exactly the same capt. I can see precisely how the split came about

But he is quite comical really, SevenZark. Slightly below Monty Python's professional argument and just slightly above automatic gainsaying.

Seven, in all fairness, we have been mean. We haven't won him over, even with our facts and knowledge and logic. We've destroyed his silly assertions and stuff. Souch so that he's all confused about why he's here

Poor MRA dude.

I still want to know why the assumption is that I don't post anywhere else and haven't experienced any direct threats as a result

BuffyBotRebooted

What a needlessly rude response. You did something I thought was commendable, so I congratulated you. I'd also like to congratulate you and anyone else in this forum who has campaigned for women's issues. I'm sorry if you take offence at that, but that's a genuinely strange response which I could not realistically have forseen. I'm not going to abandon common decency, I like to congratulate people and thank them for the good things that they do.

I never said it was the fault of feminists that men also suffer from oppression. You have tactfully chosen to ignore the more serious issues I raised, and focused on insurance premiums instead, which I find to be dishonest. I still have not seen any reason why feminists should not concentrate on both? Does an acknowledgment that men can be oppressed mean that I am any less concerned about global violence against women? No of course not, and it's offensive to suggest that that is the case.

So why should you care about these issues too? Because you realize that they can affect the people you love? Because you feel that oppression is wrong in all forms, no matter who it affects? Because you want to stop men and women from being so alienated by feminism? Those are just a few of the reasons that I believe it is necessary for you to care about these issues.

And an extra one from me for tess's brother

PetulaGordino

My apologies if that assumption was correct, but didn't you suggest that you would fear for your personal safety if you posted on MRA forums, and therefore couldn't engage them in a discussion which challenged their views? That was how I interpreted your comments, but please correct me if my interpretation was wrong.

What are you doing about global violence against women?

TessOfTheFurbyvilles

Ok, well I disagree that it should be the responsibility per se of men to initiate the campaign (I believe we should all challenge abuse when we see it). I'm glad that he has been successful though, and am glad that the women's shelter offered him support.

Win you over?

No thanks. I think I shall now hide your thread and go and exchange ideas on subjects that are of more value to me, with posters who want to share and listen and build. Human rights are not just a sixth form debating subject.

HTH.

But you haven't told us yet what oppression men suffer from, oppression that the majority of the male population suffer from.

I would fear for my personal safety, and that is based on past experience. Do you not believe me?

Honestly?

There is so much awfulness happening to women all over the world. A lot of it in places where women have no voice at all, that women have no energy to fight men's battles for them as well. We are sympathetic, some of us are actively supportive, but it's not our battle. We hold no power, few government positions, few statesperson roles. If you want to get to the root causes of why men have a hard time, look at the socially constructed gender roles we're forced to live with and campaign to get your fellow men in power to do something.

Of course men can be oppressed.

Poor men, non-white men (in certain countries), gay men lots and lots often to the point of death etc and so on.

You haven't shown me that you care about any of those things, in your posts. You have talked about insurance and whined that men earn all the money.