Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

You were the past, once.

That was to the OP btw.

cailindana makes a very important point.

EverythingCounts

Not really.

MagicalHamSandwich

That seems like a more reasonable attitude then some of the others I've seen expressed in this thread. Do you think it's right that the groups are separate though, or would it be better if both groups campaigned together on the relevant issues?

I agree that many who call themselves MRAs have said disgusting and offensive things, and it does seem to attract a large amount of very bitter men. I just don't think that the whole movement should be defined by trolls and idiots.

cailindana

No one's forcing you to give logic and evidence, or to even reply. I phrased my original message the way I did because I already have an opinion on the matter, and I think it's a genuine problem with feminism. I'd be happy for you to attempt to change my mind on this issue if you can provide a persuasive argument, but if you don't want to then that's ok. I just won't concede my point just because I haven't read all the books you have read.

Again, I will say, I am threatened by MRAs because they actually, in words and actions, threaten me, deliberately.

If there was a group of men who said "Let's all work together to end inequality for both men and women" and actually meant that I think I would cry with happiness. I would be made up. But that, to my knowledge, has never happened. Ever.

I've answered your question OP. It's a pretty logical answer.

I think it is. Guess we'll have to agree to differ.

So you, a male MRA, have come on here, the FWR area of MN, to tell us why you think we are doing feminism wrong, and to persuade us to join with the ranks of the MRAs to fight for the things that are of mutual interest.

Right.

What are these things of mutual interest? As an example, a main part of my feminism is around sexual violence around the globe. I have never in my life seen an MRA say anything of consequence on that subject. What I have seen them say is NAMALT. And stop worrying your pretty little head about that and what about the Diet Coke ad eh?

So.

I don't understand why someone who was part of a "gender equality society" at university wouldn't understand feminist issues to the extent that they created this post. They would surely be interested enough to have looked into them in order to try to understand why the group became a feminist group.

Did you stay in the newly named feminist group or did you move to the MRA group OP?

As others have said, if men's rights groups want to:

campaign for better mental health care for men

dismantle social and gender stereotypes that negatively impact men and women (such as hypermasculinity and men only being "allowed" to express their emotions through anger and violence)

campaign for domestic violence shelters or rape crisis centres for men

...then I would have absolutely no issue with any of those things and would offer my support.

However: every single MRA I have ever encountered has had zero interest in any of those things, except to demand to know why feminists aren't campaigning on any of those issues on behalf of men. And those are the polite ones. As has been mentioned, the rest amuse themselves by threatening to rape or kill us for campaigning to gain rights they already possess and don't seem keen to share.

Equally, how can you expect us not to see men as the enemy (NAMALT) when they rape, kill and harass us with such alacrity? Surely self-defence is only sensible. Are we not taught practically from birth how to defend ourselves from attack by men? Don't dress provocatively, don't stay out late, don't get drunk, carry your keys in your hand etc etc. Why are we constantly bombarded with those messages if men (NAMALT) don't pose a significant threat?

Men should want to work towards gender equality because it's the right thing to do, not because we asked them nicely. Besides which, we've been asking nicely for decades and made very little progress. So forgive me if Not Upsetting Men isn't at the top of my feminist agenda.

Actually, let me take your question very literally.

Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement? Because members of the MRA movement choose to threaten us.

I just looked up NAMALT and clicked on the first explanation

That was a stupid thing for me to do

cailindana
I think you might benefit from going to a 'real' (i.e. not online) MRA meeting, if any exist in your area. Most (though not all) of the men I know who support men's rights activism also support gender equality and have previously campaigned for 'women's issues'.

SevenZarkSeven
I am astounded that you claim to know all these things about me, given that I have not said anything which would suggest that this is the case. To give just one example (though there are many), isn't it in the interest of both women and men to try and reduce levels of suicide? And given that men are far more likely to commit suicide in nearly every society, isn't this a gendered issue and therefore relevant to feminism? Again, the condescension in your post is unnecessary, and adds very little to the discussion.

PetulaGordino
I graduated at around the same time as the name change occurred, so didn't have to make the decision. I'm honestly not sure what I would have done. I'd probably have tried to join both groups (and fight for their re-unification), but as far as I'm aware the women tended to stay in the feminist group, and a significant number of men joined the MRA group (although some stayed with the feminists). I found the whole thing divisive and sad.

What would happen do you think if I went to an MRA forum and told them they were doing it all wrong?

I reckon I'd be in for a heck of a lot more than a few snidey remarks

AnnieLobesder
I sincerely hope you meet a better class of MRA, because there are those who campaign for the very issues you mentioned. I do recognize a lot in what you said about the abuse and the unwillingness to work with feminists though. Unfortunately I think the division has caused radicalized views on both sides, with the end result that there are lots of misogynists within the MRA movement, and also some misandrists within the feminist movement.

Right.

So you don't want me to be concerned about the global epidemic of sexual violence.

You want me to think about suicide instead.

Right. Gotcha.

Jesus christ.

Where's that reasonable man picture thingy when you need it.

PetulaGordino

I think you should do exactly that! If they choose to respond to a logical and measured argument with cheap jibes, then it should only reinforce your opinion. I think it's important to debate issues with people who hold different opinions, to introduce both them and yourself to new evidence, theoretical perspectives, and lived experiences.

SevenZarkSeven

Why not be concerned with both? I know I am.

The fact is that for equality men need to move the fuck over and give up some of their privileges. And MRAs (and many men who don't declare themselves MRAs) don't want to do that

"Unfortunately I think the division has caused radicalized views on both sides, with the end result that there are lots of misogynists within the MRA movement, and also some misandrists within the feminist movement."

Nope.

Feminists have not become "radicalised" as a response to MRAs. Feminism in various strands has existed for a very long time, as a direct reaction to the often outrageous treatment of females.

The MRA "movement" is the new name for the old story of men who want to keep women "in their place".

HTH

It wouldn't be a debate and it wouldn't just be "cheap jibes". I would be threatened and my personal safety isn't worth that for your entertainment

I don't think it would be safe either Petula.

OP, where do you sit (metaphorically) on the Fiona Woolf inquiry?

MRAs aren't interested in supporting equality. They're interested in keeping their privilege.

PetulaGordino
For many issues, I'd agree with you there. But do you think that women also need to give up some of their privileges in order for true equality? Or do you think it's impossible for women to have any privileges in a patriarchy?

SevenZarkSeven
If that's what you choose to define the MRA movement as, then you are quite right to feel threatened by them. That bears very little resemblance to what they actually are, however.