Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

Because men's rights groups aren't building domestic violence shelters for men, or raising funds for men-only cancers or campaigning against homophobia. Instead they are campaigning to stop feminist conferences, shut down feminist discussions on the internet and generally hang around talking about how Elliot Rodger was right and women are taking men's jobs, blah, blah, blah ...

There was a guy from one of those MRA sites who was invited to speak for men on an Australian breakfast show a while ago. He had blogged about how men should smash women's faces in and beat them to a pulp. There's that other guy (can't remember his name) who blogs about how the world would be a better place if his own daughters were dead and who falsely exposed an American student as a rape-accuser and then said he hoped the online abuse the woman subsequently received would make her blow her brains out. These men aren't the extreme; this is level of men's rights campaigning.

Be honest, Men's Rights really mean Anti-Women's Rights.

Well quite scallops. You want collaboration? Show us what you're doing to combat male violence against women and girls and then we'll talk

scallopsrgreat

Where did I demand similar considerations from you? I've not asked anyone to justify what activism they may or may not do, I'm simply wondering why men's-rights discussions are met with such opposition in feminist circles, and wondered if there was a place for them in feminist groups.

Also, annie and so many more brilliant women have already answered your questions, many times over.

Of course patriarchy is as damaging to men as it is to women, however that's not why feminists want rid of it, the fact that men would be far better off without it will just be a happy side effect of smashing it.

I have never seen a feminist happy that young men commit suicide, get prostate and testicular cancers, die in wars of their own devising, are abused by their partners etc. I've seen them not prioritise those things and be vilified for it by men. What I have seen though is MRAs threatening to rape women, laughing about IPV where women are the victims, telling women to die in fires. I have seen MRAs do illegal things to find personal information about women who don't agree with them and dare to speak out, they have then postered and posted that info as far as they can in order to intimidate women. I have seen the very few MRAs who have said that that isn't a good idea treated in the same way and called emasculating names.

It's not a small minority of the MRA movement who do this, it is central to the ethos of the movement. Any dissent from the party line is dealt with in a male fashion, with threats and violence.

I'm not talking about "the quality of your argument" or other such nonsense. I'm talking about how you have expectations of what feminists should be doing, saying, campaigning for etc. I am just asking if you have the similar expectations for your own campaigning i.e. taking on women's problems, women's actual oppression in the same way you expect us to take on men's problems.

CKDexterHaven

If you really believe that, then I can see why you would hate MRAs. The views of the people you've mentioned are absolutely deplorable. If all MRAs were like that, then I'd hate them too. But do you really think that the majority of MRAs agree with that? That this was why men's rights groups were formed? Thankfully, the vast majority of people know that those people are idiots, and treat them as such.

OP please can you tell us in what way men are oppressed that feminists don't care about. When I say feminists I mean true feminists and not your tumblr extremists. Your last statement could also be applied to feminism or any other 'group' with an opinion.

It's got nothing to do with the "quality of argument" and everything to do with coming here and saying "why aren't you feminists doing something about xyz problem for men" and not giving us any indication of what MRAs are doing for the feminist cause. Because all evidence points to them actively trying to set it back and regain more control over women

Because men already have all the rights, and that's most of the problem? Why do we need to make space for that? Feminists are fighting for equality. The fact that some men don't like what equality looks like for them is not my problem.

do you really think that the majority of MRAs agree with that?

In a nutshell, yes. Because I have never seen any evidence to the contrary.

x-post. Why shouldn't men rights discussions be met with such opposition? Feminism isn't about men. To coin a phrase on here "it's irrelevant".

"If you really believe that"

None of us needs to believe. We know because we are on the receiving end of it to a greater or lesser degree, including via your posts here

I identify as a feminist and an MRA

Reading over your posts and comparing it to this statement - I completely doubt that you are a feminist at all. And if you truly still believe you are a feminist, then that shows you do not have self awareness and have not analysed your deeply held values. As an MRA, you have bought into a set of beliefs which intriniscally do harm to to human life and humanity.

CaptChaos
Again, the things you've stated there are deplorable, and I would hate MRAs too if I thought they were all like that. I'm not talking about those bitter misogynists who identify as MRAs just to abuse feminist women, I'm talking about the men who are genuinely interested in gender equality, and believe that this involves focusing on men's issues as well as women's issues. I'm sorry you've had to deal with so many abusive idiots in your experience of MRAs, but I don't think that's truly representative of the group's serious members.

As has been repeatedly stated on here, men who genuinely believe in gender equality (including improving the lot of men) don't call themselves MRAs. They tend to call themselves feminists, or feminist allies

But I suspect you know this already

But focussing on men's issues isn't what feminism is about. Men have issues, we know that. We get told about them every single time we want to focus on issues that affect women.

They don't have a rights problem though.

We don't want to waste our energy appeasing men. That is part of what keeps us oppressed. That continual appeasement and sapping of energy.

Those men are not MRAs.

Please, do show me where these men who identify as MRAs, but arent vile and misogynist, are. Please?

What would be the value to feminism of including men who want women to live in concentration camps? Feminists are campaigning for women, they are not campaigning against men.

Anyway, why doesn't the British Heart Foundation do more for brain tumours? Why doesn't the PDSA raise money for children's hospitals? Why doesn't UKIP spend more of its time campaigning for the Socialist Workers Party?

This was from the elders of the MRA movement, so you'll excuse me if I don't believe you. Merely favouriting a post about counting dead women seems to deserve a slew of threatening DMs from MRAs desperate to tell women that they are going to find and rape them and their children.

And you women! Stop with your memes! I can't see them on my stupid phone app and it's making me sad! You are oppressing me with your memes.

scallopsrgreat
If you support a form of feminism that thinks men's rights are irrelevant, then I'm quite glad that you disagree with me. I would never want to hold an opinion like that.

PetulaGordino
Are you suggesting that I've been abusive to anyone on here? I've tried my hardest to refrain from any such personal attacks, even when people were insulting me. To try and suggest that I am in any way like the people mentioned in that post is offensive, and needless to say, inaccurate.

Zazzles007
Genuinely, can you find an example of where I've made a comment which is anti-feminist? As far as I'm aware, I have argued that men and women are oppressed in different ways, and the form of feminism I believe in should challenge this type of oppression wherever it is found. I know it is a form of feminism that you and others here might disagree with, but I hardly think that means I am not feminist.

I've run out of my allocation of pics on MN, and have to go off and do real-life stuff. Happy to come back tomorrow and keep the laughs going though (if the thread is still going) .

OP stop lying to me, it just shows me your lack of integrity.

LaVoixDeLaRaison - You have clearly come here to stir things up from the site LaVoixPourLesHommes.

The examples I quoted before were not a question of what I believed but actual examples of the views of MRAs. The guy who talked of smashing women's faces in is the founder of one of the biggest MRA groups. Stop feigning naivety about what these groups believe. They are not campaigning to improve men's lives, they are campaigning for the right to oppress and abuse women.

10 out of 10 for goadiness though, brother.