Right you pesky feminists, which sort of rape is *worse* <Dawkins related>

[ladyblablah]

So Dawkins (self proclaimed ironic prophet) has decided that date rape is not as bad as a rape with a knife at your throat.

I have a question - what if the date rape includes a knife at the throat - what then - who wins at being the worst?

Is there a rule that date rape doesn't include knives? Do us feminists not know this rule for rapists?

I think so, Just - I think they are aggravating factors.

That is a good explanation, lurcio.

Certainly that is what struck me as flawed about his argument - it treats rape as the whole event, when it isn't. It's just that one physical act.

Just -

Hope the court case is not too awful for you and that they nail the bastard.

Lurcio - good point about the knife, but, as mentioned above, English sentencing guidelines do differentiate between types of rape - for example a rapist who knows he has an STD is given a higher sentence than one who doesn't, regardless of whether the victim is infected.
Similarly a rapist of an 80 year old will get a higher sentence than that of a 40 year old.
Therefore we do have rape and worse rape - as a society we do not treat all rape as equivalent, regardless of aggrevating factors.

"as a society we do not treat all rape as equivalent, regardless of aggrevating factors."

Carol, I disagree with that, I still think the rape itself is being treated as equal (ie a five year starting point sentence) and then the aggravating factors (ie endangering life with HIV) are additive when it comes to sentencing,

Carol, when you are talking about the age thing, do you mean this bit?

"The extreme youth or old age of a victim should be an aggravating factor. In addition, in principle, the younger the child and the greater the age gap between the offender and the victim, the higher the sentence should be. "

abland yes, all other things being equal, the rape of an 80 year old is worse than the rape of a 40 year old - the crime is the same, the only thing different is the age of the victim.
The age of the victim is not considered in most other crimes.

Haven't RTFT but he's an utter prick.

It isn't the age that's relevant though, it's the fact that the attacker has purposefully targeted someone vulnerable because of their age.

Reference please, Dadwashere - your interpretation is contrary to my understanding of the situation

I am more interested in the behaviour of light, optics and photon mapping than quantum mechanics. But I personally feel an interpretation of the results of the experiment were debunked a few years back in work done hmm … google...

physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/jun/03/the-secret-lives-of-photons-revealed

Defenders of wave function collapse said that such weak measurement did not count because the level of interference via measurement was not sufficient to collapse the field. I think saying something like that was predictable, in as much as people will search for any bolt-hole that allows them to escape having ideas shot down. But I think in doing so they may well have retreated to a philosophical viewpoint that can never, ever, be assailed by any experiment, because any experiment that would disprove their interpretation is invalidated as soon as it disproves it... if that makes sense.

For anyone not knowing what on earth is being talked about here (assuming you care) the link that follows may help.

In terms of empowering girls, it was showing my daughter this and other things that got her interested enough to start studying physics and top level math at school.

You can do an even simpler version to see the effect by replacing the apparatus he makes with a black plastic fine tooth comb, but not a metal one because you dont want it reflecting laser light back at you, which is why he uses black plastic tape. You can also use an upright pin but for safty dull the surface first with a black felt marker. The comb gives you multiple slits, the pin two infinitely wide slits(paths) around the pin.

"It isn't the age that's relevant though, it's the fact that the attacker has purposefully targeted someone vulnerable because of their age."

Yes, that's rather how I read the guidelines too. There's nothing specific in the paragraph about when old age "starts" (and I'm not sure if it should be read as "old age" or "extreme old age").

I haven't read guidelines for eg mugging but I can imagine a gang deliberately targeting the elderly and frail vs a hang targeting 20 somethings leaving a pub may be sentenced differently too.

Age not an issue for robbery (including mugging) here

Aggravating factors on your link include "vulnerable victim targeted". That is likely an aggravating factor in most / all crimes. Your "elderly and frail" victims would certainly fall under that header. Is there a reason you think they would not?

"Similarly a rapist of an 80 year old will get a higher sentence than that of a 40 year old.
Therefore we do have rape and worse rape - as a society we do not treat all rape as equivalent, regardless of aggrevating factors."

The age of the victim in the first scenario is an aggravating factor.
The rapes themselves are both rapes ie penetration without consent as per the law which defines rape.

1) She has foreplay with her long term boyfriend. This develops into having intercourse, which she enjoys. Part way through, she realises that she has been forgetting to take the pill. She tells the boyfriend she has changed her mind and he should withdraw. He continues to orgasm before withdrawing.

Sorry this was from a few days ago..but if my long term boyfriend decided he would risk my health and get me pregnant against my will because he "couldn't stop" I'd find that pretty horrific actually. And yes men CAN stop before orgasming inside you, the withdrawal method is used by quite a lot of people actually

I think it is a very different thing to consider rape differently according to the vulnerability of the victim be that age or disability because the damage done purely by the rape alone to those victims is potentially much higher. What Dawkins is doing is pronouncing, as a man (which yes does make this more galling), how women should feel about their rapes based on who the perpetrator is (and random aggravating factors) not the victim.