This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

[CrotchMaven]

It gives me such a heavy heart. What more does a man have to do to demonstrate how much he hates women (and the men who probably treated them as people) for anyone but feminists and mras to listen? Is there just a weird echo chamber thing going on, with feminists on one side, mras on the other and the rest of the world in the gallery above the mras? (sorry, got carried away with the visual)

[CaptChaos]

And so it will go on.....

It will be blamed on MH problems
ASD
the poor young woman being villified in the DM
his mother
his father
the misalignment of the planets

in fact anything which doesn't mention the fact that he hated women enough to want to put them all in concentration camps and starve them to death, but this was quicker.

[AskBasil]

and here's another one but he's just another disconnected one-off

[22honey]

Capt there was more to it than him merely hating women though. He appeared to hate society aswell and any man that appeared to be doing better than him was also fair game.

A very bitter and twisted individual and I'm sorry it cannot simply be blamed on one factor.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Of course it can't be blamed on one factor. Otherwise every man would be on a killing spree. However, since he obviously hated women, wanted them and wanted them to suffer, posted about killing them and on and on, it was obviously a major factor in the killer's own mind.

I can argue that sectarian violence stems from poverty, land appropriation, education lack and historical factors but to pretend that religion ISN'T a major factor would be stupid.

[22honey]

No one is pretending misogyny isnt a major factor, infact I've said further up it obviously is. Its likely the main factor. Its just not the only one, not by a long shot.

[ballsballsballs]

This is his manifesto.

www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto

This is a young man whose stated wish was to kill ALL women, apart from breeding stock. But he's not a misogynist? WTF.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

22 I'm wondering why that matters. Misogyny was the main reason so let's address misogyny. Or, am I missing something? I look to the media, particularly that in the US, to minimise the role of misogyny in this crime, do we need it on a feminism chat board?

[CaptChaos]

As an example...

When Anders Brievik blew up a building and shot all those young people and told everyone that he did it because he hated Muslims, he wrote an anti-Islam manifesto, where he blamed all Muslims for all the ills in the world and, apart from the judicial process of him seeing psychiatrists to see if he was mentally ill, no one tried to explain away his motives. Far right websites were rooted out, Europe embraced and said that hating Muslims was a bad thing. And rightly so.

This yahoo writes a 'manifesto' stating categorically that he hates women and blames them for all the ills in the world, he made Youtube Vlogs about how much he hated women and blamed them for all the ills in the world, his parents were concerned enough about his misogynistic videos that they called the Police in and yet..... A large number of people, from the papers, to random men and women, to MRA/PUA/MGTOW sites is telling us that it has nothing to do with his hatred of women, or that, even if it does, there is another, more important reason than misogyny for what he did.

It is the victim blaming that goes on when women are raped or murdered writ large, because deep down, maybe all men think that women are to blame?

[22honey]

'Of course it can't be blamed on one factor. Otherwise every man would be on a killing spree.'

So is every man a narcissistic misogynist? This post certainly says so.

[22honey]

www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/25/anti-woman-website-predicts-more-elliott-rogers-if-society-doesnt-provide-them-with-sex/?onswipe_redirect=no&oswrr=1

have you seen this article? how can anyone be so utterly deluded and self pitying? -

'Roosh goes on to say, “We live in a society where being shy, normal, or a little awkward is duly punished by entitled American women who have been encouraged to pursue exciting and fun casual sex in their prime with sexy and hot men as a way of ‘experimentation.’”

He then explains that when women have “passed their physical prime” they then select a “nice guy” with whom to settle down, with the understanding that he is “expected to keep his mouth shut when a trickle flow of informational torture reveals that his bride-to-be has experienced more than a dozen different penises in her vagina, anus, and mouth—the same mouth that is supposed to kiss his future children good night.”

Nothing whatsoever about the fact young men like to have casual sex aswell- no, its only women that arn't supposed to do such a thing. What about a man kissing your kids whose had his mouth on lots of different fannies before?

[22honey]

' “Seven people are dead because society has decided that shy and awkward men like Elliot Rodger do not deserve a girlfriend and that there is absolutely no way to improve his loneliness and loserdom through learning game or any other social behavior. At the same time men like him are ostracized, there is no legal means for him to solicit prostitution (in California) to release his biological and very pressing urge for fornication.”'

These people honestly see this as society and women's problem and not theirs. The sense of entitlement is scary, its also rather strange he has said 'society' decides these men can't get a girlfriend, as though society should start forcing women to date men they arn't interested in just to save the mans pathetic ego or else he might kill someone.

That people actually hold these views is utterly ridiculous. childish and nonsensical.

[22honey]

ballsballs not one person on the thread has stated he isn't a mysoginist.

I hate to say it but people on this particular forum really don't do themselves any favours and often come across hysterical (sorry, I know you will hate that word but that is exactly it)

[22honey]

'maybe all men think that women are to blame'

No sane, rational man thinks that way. It really doesn't do the cause any favours either the constant stereotyping and generalising of 'all men'. Its never 'some' men or 'many' men on here, its always men in general or all men.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Well I'm afraid you're not doing yourself any favours by calling posters on a feminist board hysterical, honey.

[22honey]

Some posts on this thread do come across as hysterical though. Its better to point this out so people can amend their posting etiquette because otherwise no one else outside would take this movement seriously.

I don't need to do myself any favours on this thread, but feminists could do to do the cause a favour if they ever want anyone else to take it seriously. I don't use the word hysterical lightly either and consider myself a feminist.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Honey why don't you start a seperate etiquette thread informing us how should feminists behave, so that we for example avoid sounding hysterical while discussing a misogynist massmurderer from a feminist point of view.

[22honey]

Do you not understand that the constant generalising of 'all' men on these threads is undermining the cause? Most people will not even consider someone's point of view when they make such sweeping generalizations about one gender.

'And so it will go on.....

It will be blamed on MH problems
ASD
the poor young woman being villified in the DM
his mother
his father
the misalignment of the planets

in fact anything which doesn't mention the fact that he hated women enough to want to put them all in concentration camps and starve them to death, but this was quicker.'

This post for example, a rather simplistic conclusion that completely ignores all the co morbid factors alongside this guys relentless misogyny that lead to what happened. It comes across hysterical because it refuses so examine the other factors and insists 'he did it because he hated women!'- yes he did but numerous men hate women and don't do things like this.

Its far too simplistic to just say he did it because hes a misogynist.

[TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy]

22honey, it doesn't do people with mental illnesses any favours with you throwing us under the bus like that.

We live in a society where many sane, rational men blame women in violent. We have media that pumps out over and over that men will get the women if they do the "right" things and if not then there is something wrong with her. As it has been said, if a woman has a crush on a guy and is rebuffed there is something wrong with her, if a guy is rebuffed by a woman, there is something wrong with her. I have had men who are perfectly of sound mind start taking about 'cockteases' and the 'friend zone' to refer to women who do want to get sexually involved with them and there are entire websites dedicated to men who blame women for their "involuntary celibacy".

And there are men with mental illnesses who would never bother women and stand up for them And they are getting thrown under the bus every time. Even with this guy has no diagnosis and the entire thing about him being on the autistic spectrum was his parents concerns that were ignored by police and armchair psycs analysis his laugh. As someone with mental illnesses and is aware that people with mental illnesses are far more likely to be the victims of attacks than actually an attacker - I am quite sick of ableism being people's port of call to dismiss these guys rather than looking at what in our society makes and protects them over their victims.

We can say 'politicians' and 'bankers' without qualifiers and people know what we mean, but we have to be extra careful for the feelings of men?

ALL men are responsible for standing up and making their voices heard to other men that this is not acceptable. When they remain silent, when men focus more on "Not ALL men are like that" and blaming women for fearing them instead of telling other men not to be like that IS siding with those who are like that. When men go "we're not all like that" they're mishearing what is being said as an attack on men when essentially women are saying that our concerns and legitimate fears are ignored for the feelings of men and when people go 'they're/we're not all like that' what they are saying is that they are exactly like that - their feelings are viewed and shown time and again to be more important than the lives and agency of women, and until their feelings aren't more important, we will keep getting these attacks. There are been a mass shooting in the States an average of every other day since 1970. Only 2 of those were women shooters. If it were mental illness that was the spark, the numbers would be roughly even. Until this is openly talked about instead of needing to couch terms to protect and praising the feelings of men, there will be more. There was already another shooting of women by a man when they refused to sleep with them in their friends in California hours after this shooting (thankfully no one was killed). This will keep happening until we make ALL men who are not like that speak out against this instead of dismissing them as irrational and insane. Dismissing the violence without looking at its root cause will only bring more violence.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Are you aware that this is FWR and we are discussing the misogny aspect of it on this thread, that is the purpose of this thread.
Go start your own anti-hysteria etiquette thread now thanks.

[22honey]

TheSpork what on earth are you talking about 'it doesnt give people with mental illness any favours'- where did I mention people with mental illnesses?

This guy was not mentally ill, he apparently had ASD and looks to have been a narcissist. You can say narcissism is a mental illness but tbh I don't think it is, you can never cure a narcissist as they just don't see that they are the problem, everyone else is. Its more a personality disorder than a bloody mental illness.

As to your other points, I suppose as a woman its your responsibility to stand up and make your voice heard everytime a woman does something bad, for example women who kill their children or allow them to be abused? If not its hypocritical to suggest its ALL MENS responsibility what this guy did and the misogynistic views of other men.

I do not consider the men who hold these opinions either sane or rational.

[22honey]

' This will keep happening until we make ALL men who are not like that speak out against this instead of dismissing them as irrational and insane'

I don't think even this would stop it from happening. It doesn't happen purely because the man hasn't had a telling off from every other man on the planet. Look at this guy, he hated other men aswell and it appears if they had told him anything it would have furthered his agenda of hatred even more as those men were the 'lucky ones getting the sex' and it would damage his ego being 'told' anything by them.

I think the media has a lot of answer for to be honest, and the porno culture that suggests everyone is having loads of great sex with the people that they want it with.

[Minnieisthedevilmouse]

22. Am in complete agreement with you. I've tried pointing it out in other threads a few times but then apparently I'm anti feminist. I'm not. I feel this board gets far too insular and forgets to allow others to join in very well. I like this boards topic and find it fascinating, but it's very prescriptive, our way only. And that does actually sadden me.

[22honey]

'ALL men are responsible for standing up and making their voices heard to other men that this is not acceptable.'

Could easily be 'ALL women are responsible for standing up and making their voices heard to other women that this is not acceptable.' with regards to women killing their own children for example.

If you don't agree with this then please explain why.