This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

[22honey]

When have I stated once that Aspergers was the cause or excuse for what he did? I merely stated it was likely part of the reason why he struggled with his peers and despite being well off etc, could not get a girlfriend.

[22honey]

thecatfromjapan, you clearly know nothing about me, my life or my opinions on misogyny. I know better than probably most posters on this thread that it exists and is everywhere.

My first post actually pointed out the huge entitlement complex to sex I have noticed many young men have. Me mentioning aspergers was only me finding a reason why he struggled socially with his peers, not a reason for why he did what he did.

[22honey]

For what its worth I don't think this guy was a 'mummys boy', it seems his parents were so busy with their careers they threw money at him instead of giving him attention and nurturing him, something he would definately need given he had ASD. That is not blaming women or mothers pointing out his parents may have made some flaws in their upbringing of him.

[SwimmimgMonkey]

"My impression of people with AS is a tendency to be introverted and being keen on behaving politely and correctly (as making social mistakes are common)"

That describes my DS perfectly. It is his inability to read social cues that make him over anxious to adhere to social rules of behaviour. I'm pretty sure he regards not committing murder as one of those rules!

What I'm trying to say is that IME Aspies are least likely to transgress social boundaries because they are so anxious to respect them.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Yes, 22 'mummy's boy' is shorthand for spoilt and indulged. The reason to point it out is not to have a go at you, but to highlight the way that society minimises this stuff and maximises the blame on women. You could have said, 'daddy's boy' but you didn't because we are all like fish, swimming in the sea of the patriarchy, which makes the water difficult to see at times.

[thecatfromjapan]

22honey Yes, I'm sorry about that. For what it's worth, I reported one of those posts. i wasn't going to say anything because I don't like making things worse.

[SwimmimgMonkey]

Absolutely MrsT, there is a real urge in our society to push boys away from their mothers as they grow up. It's interesting how many villains in movies and TV are portrayed as either overbearing mothers with too much power or men who are under the thumb of said overbearing mothers.

[thecatfromjapan]

I have to say, I have problems wiht the term "mummy's boy". It smacks to me of being both sexist and homophobic. I'm not sure that interrogating language for its embedded sexist assumptions is literal when it is taking place on a Feminist board. It's kind of the place where you might expect that.

The above is intended to be read as a contribution to a conversation: something proffered. Not as an attack. i think I should make that very clear.

[Shallishanti]

I think trying to find a single cause is simplistic. Misogyny alone cannot account for this massacre, because after all there are misogynists- even ones who express vile, violent, hateful thoughts who DONT mass murder. Murders of individual women and familycide (is that the right word) are sadly more common, but that isn't what happened here and I don't know if it makes sense to see both types of crime on a continuum. Like I said before one crucial element in this crime is access to guns, which allowed him to kill so many so quickly.
I don't think it's hate speech to speculate that ASD may also be an element. I think it's unfair to accuse 22honey of hate speech. She didn't say that ASD made people murderous AT ALL. She proposed that ASD might have interacted with his sense of entitlement. An attractive and socially adept boy+sense of entitlement=an arsehole, but probably one who 'gets' what he feels entitled to (access to attractive girls). She says, from her experience, she has known boys with ASD and has not felt them to be sexually/emotionally mature. Like an extreme version of the common situation that girls tend to date boys/men older than themselves as their peers strike them as juvenile. I think that sounds quite plausible and I've known plenty of non NT boys who are perfectly nice people but aren't seen by their peers as boyfriend material.
So I think that sense of entitlement (exacerbated by extreme affluence) plus access to guns plus sexual isolation (where ASD plays a part) plus misogyny fed by these extreme websites.....all those together and maybe more besides created this situation.

[22honey]

Also my friend with ASD who I mentioned before I must say is more likely to have people hurt him than the other way round, I would not say people with Aspergers are violent etc they tend to be sensitive and rather vulnerable individuals.

My point was about his emotional and sexual maturity which is way way behind his actual age, and why this would deter girls from dating him and create social functioning problems. Theres nothing discriminative or offensive about pointing this out.

Its also not saying Aspergers caused him to do what he did, its more likely his huge entitlement complex did that and that having such an entitlement complex but because of his difficulties not getting the relationship/social life he wanted caused him to mentally disintegrate over time and decide to kill a load of people.

I do think porn culture contributed to his strange views of entitlement to women.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

I think trying to find a single cause is simplistic

I posted this in FWR since the murderer was motivated by hatred of women, and wanted to discuss it from a feminist perspective.

It really worries me that this type of angry, objectifying and entitled attitude to women is common and that men can find other misogynists online and spur each other on.

[SwimmingMonkey]

Shallishanti, I agree that Misogyny isn't the only cause of this terrible crime, but it is one that we can do something about.

I also think that many people's resistance to naming it as even part of the problem (as evidenced in comments left in blogposts on the issue) actually IS the problem. Especially as it was so blatantly admitted to in his "manifesto".

[FloraFox]

How quick are people to blame his mother! I agree with those who say that we don't know much about his upbringing and it is PUA/MRA bullshit that is likely to blame. However despite the mother being brought into the frame as responsible but nothing is said about his father's role. We have previously discussed the role of movies in presenting women as the prize earned by men for their wealth, talent, actions etc (eg Mall Cop, that stupid booking.com ad). He also apparently sold "tasteful" photos of naked women. Has anyone for one minute considered his father's role? No but his mother's seems to be fair game.

[grimbletart]

The over sexualisation of society - too much talk about it, too much sexual exhibitionism in videos (for example), pornography on tap everywhere, IMO makes it easier for disaffected, misogynistic or mentally ill individuals to see it as "unfair" that they have a right to sex and are not getting any when everyone else apparently is (except of course they are probably not). We seem to have gone from repression in the 50s to the other extreme. No way am I excusing this sicko, before anyone suggests I am BTW.

[FloraFox]

Wow my posts have been very badly written today. I'm blaming my dodgy new contact lenses.

[22honey]

Shallish is exactly spot on and has put across what I mean much more eloquently.

[22honey]

Flora his mother wasn't brought in or blamed, I merely stated he may have been a 'mummys boy' and it was not meant to be taken literally. It was meant he had lead a spoilt overindulged existence.

[22honey]

Swimmingmonkey I get this is a feminism forum, but I don't see how misogyny is 'the only thing we can do anything about' in this instance.

[CrotchMaven]

I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often, tbh. Although I think it does, but they victims are family and so a different spin is put on it.

Yes, it's an availability of guns issue, yes it's an issue of support for those with complex problems, but it cannot be clearer that hatred of women was the driver. He said so.

Any chance there will be a proper international debate about any of this?

[22honey]

' rich, white men get to have a women to fuck'

He wasn't white, he was mixed white and malaysian.

Plenty of men who arn't rich have this sort of entitlement, although I have to admit in my experience it tends to come from those better off who believe their money should be able to buy womens affections.

[22honey]

I also believe it to be a class issue aswell, middle class and above people have a much higher sense of entitlement than those worse off, and its obvious this can manifest itself also with better off men feeling entitled to women.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Any chance there will be a proper international debate about any of this?
I wish. There is probably a strong force out there that want this to be swept under the carpet and seen as the work of a lonely madman so that we don't have to talk about men's attitudes and behaviours.

[LoveSardines]

This sort of thing goes on a lot though doesn't it. This example is just very extreme and shocking.

From men in some parts of the world chucking acid over women who won't go out with them / sleep with them / talk to them / whatever, to when I was young there were warnings out to blonde women in London because a man was throwing acid at them on the tube (again with the acid. And the blonde. Themes, here).

So this isn't the first time and it sure as hell won't be the last.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Yes, I was reminded by acid-throwing too. Same entitlement/revenge mentality. Fucking crazy men

[AskBasil]

TIME is already minimising the misogyny angle