This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

[thecatfromjapan]

Please don't blame mothers, 22honey. Apart from anything else, patriarchal society is so very, very adept at doing this, it really doesn't need your help.

I think mothers have a lot less to do with raising sexist boys than patriarchal, capitalist society. Capitalist society expends so much money, for a start, commodifying feelings of isolation, fracture and fear (that lie at the root of so many of our identities) and bending this into anxieties, and psychological fractures, and misogynies - it was always going to be a lot more powerful than any one woman/mother.

I do my best as a mother. If my son turns out to be a sexist, even a violent sexist, I absolutely refuse to be held responsible.

I don't like returning what are sexist structures into the domestic home, and to the feet of the mother. It lets society off the hook, for a start. I also think it sets us all up for the argument that it is "just men as individuals" rather than a societal problem that involves men as a class, and a sexist society.

This isn't aimed at you, 22honey. I think your observations about an increase in young men moaning on the internet may well be accurate and true and is interesting. But I am a mother, and quite an old one, and

1. I've heard this "It's the mother's fault" thing, in different forms, for years, and years, and years
   

and

1. You would be amazed how much patriarchal society dislikes mothers. There is a weird, wild ambivalence about mothers: theoretically we're loved, in fact ... it's less nice, actually.
   

1. As a mother, you are only one step away from being an older woman, and thus a thing that a lot of people (sadly, not just men, but those men and women with internalised patriarchal thoughts) just think are worthless and obsolete, good only for blaming everything on. It's amazing how much hatred you can attract.
   

So, it's kind of nice to be able to have a little rant about mother-blaming.

[thecatfromjapan]

22Honey - Your post seems a bit ASD-hateful to me. Perhaps you didn't intend it that way but it does read like that to me.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

22 you can take that one step back and say that women may be indulging their children but that might be as a result of the pressure on women to be 'perfect' mothers. Blaming women for spoilt, misogynist male behaviour seems a little victim-blaming to me.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

No this thinking is not uncommon as we can see especially online where these men feel free to write what they really think.

I doubt it was because he was a mummy's boy 22honey I blame the general misogynist culture and growing up rich helped him feel entitled. I have not been following the news since it's upsetting but I'm certain porn has played a large part too in shaping his view of women. I think the "blonde sl*t" fixation comes from porn.

Something must be done about these attitudes, the question is what. This can't be allowed to happen again.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I put rich in inverted commas to indicate that I didn't mean money. I meant money and charm and social skills and good looks and all the other things that make a person attractive and desirable. Beauty has become a commodity, wrong as that is.

[22honey]

'I don't see why Aspergers is relevant.'

It is relevant. It would have affected his social functioning (there is evidence of this online) that he was unable to meet or get along with any girls, or even any of his peers at all. It seems he was a loner, and it would be silly to suggest his Aspergers didn't contribute to it.

Its not the same as saying he killed because of his Aspergers.

[22honey]

thecat its not ASD hateful, I have no reason to think badly of anyone with ASD. Its just a blatant fact that it hinders emotional and social functioning and you'd be an idiot to deny that this will cause problems in the sufferers relationships with their peers.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

I think his social functioning was more affected by the fact that he was an entitled misogynist. He was probably sending out bad vibes scaring the girls away.

[22honey]

'I doubt it was because he was a mummy's boy 22honey '

Well, no, It seems he had a spoilt overindulged existence but as is typical with career minded parents, no emotional support which is something someone with his condition really needs, just money thrown at him.

I know first hand having parents who are always absconding to work where all their emotional energy goes into their career, they are not there for their children emotionally like they need and that does affect them.

I don't see how claiming his over indulgence may have contributed to his entitlement complex is blaming women??

[thecatfromjapan]

22Honey, I've read your posts back several times now. I am convinced that, unconsciously, you are trying to minimise the misogyny that he told us motivated his crimes.

You've implied (by proxy) that it his mother's fault, you are implying that ASD had some part.

I am certain you are doing this because we are conditioned to downplay and minimise misogyny - it's prevalence, what it can do - and try and not-see it. I don't think any less of you for doing this - I think it's a difficult thing to avoid doing. However, I think it will actually help you in the long run if you can stop yourself doing this.

I also absolutely, utterly disagree with you.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Because you singled out his 'mummy' 22. That's why. Maybe his father was the spoiler, maybe neither were. Maybe being ignored meant that he took all his learning from porn and MRA internet sites.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

I feel really uncomfortable with the implication that we are supposed to feel sorry for the poor lonely murderer. I feel sorry for the victims and their poor families and friends.

[CaptChaos]

I wondered how long it would be before someone 'excused' his behaviour on the grounds of his ASD. Didn't take long.

As most people know, my DS has ASD. He is also a feminist. He sees treating women as lesser than men as being illogical and stupid. There are as many different manifestations of ASD as there are people with ASD. It is not a blanket, it does not excuse Rodger's extremist misogyny, it does not excuse his manifesto of hate.

What he did, and had planned to do for a good while, was not because he had ASD. It was because he suffered from a pair of far more insidious and debilitating disorders: Misogyny and Racism.

It's making me really quite cross that so many people are trying to find so many excuses for what he did. It is making me even more cross that him having ASD is being used as an excuse for his violence. It is simplistic, disablist and is going to make my son's life just that bit harder.

[TheSarcasticFringehead]

According to some newspapers I've read, he had a therapist and was on medication. He had also talked about suicide before, which isn't a normal or healthy reaction to being rejected. I said it upthread, but this looks more like mental illness than misogyny. However, misogyny could have directed it and there is definitely a feeling that men have the right to have a woman, and if a woman says no then it's friendzoning and if a woman says yes to the people she wants to say yes to, she's a slut.

[thecatfromjapan]

Who are you addressing Just?

If it is CaptainChaos, then I have to say she said that 22Honey's posts could be read as seeking to provide an excuse (as in "rationale") for these crimes other than misogyny.

I'm pretty sure that was what I wrote too.

I think 22Honey is seeking to find causes other than misogyny as motivation for this. I would add that I think what is determining 22Honey's attempt to find reasons other than misogyny is a deep desire to minimise the presence and effects of misogyny - which is a deisre that I believe to be quite widespread in our society (as is misogyny).

That's quite different from thinking 22Honey is seeking to simply "excuse" this crime. I don't think that. I hope that is clearer.

[thecatfromjapan]

"seeking to find causes other than and/or in addition to misgyny." - "in addition to" - because it would "dilute" the role of misogyny.

[Dervel]

I'm currently reading his manifesto thing, and to be honest I can't just from reading this document see where his mother went wrong at all. It sounds as if she bent over backwards to make sure his home environment with her was a loving one.

If there was a competency vacuum in the way he was parented it came from his father, who seemed to be absent frequently. He also appeared to have an adversarial relationship with his fathers partner, and whatever the rights and wrongs of what actually happened (bearing in mind this document comes from an intensely disturbed mind), he was made to feel he was tertiary to this woman's needs. It was his fathers responsibility that he did not feel that way. Having said that the father is not behaving much differently to millions of dads the world over so that can't be all there is to it.

I'm a little annoyed that once again when parenting comes into question it's all the mothers fault.

The lion's share of blame IMO rests on the shoulders of these pua and mra websites. There are always going to be people with mental health issues, and any ideology that produces hate is going to appeal to those with personality disorders, by provided a convenient scapegoat for their own shortcomings.

[SwimmimgMonkey]

My son has ASD and he has a clearer sense of right and wrong, of fairness and social equality than anyone I know. I'd like to put that down to my wonderful parenting, but alas it is all him.

I hate it when people wheel out Aspergers as a reason for people's murderous acts. People who do so have no real clue what Aspergers really entails.

[CaptChaos]

Just

My post wasn't aimed particularly at Honey's. There have been posts all over where Rodger's actions are 'excused' by his ASD, because 'everyone knows' that people with ASD aint like us.

I am no doubt too emotionally involved in the ASD aspect, but people's ignorance of who people with ASD are and their differences, I feel is harmful.

Rodger's didn't kill because he had ASD. He killed because he was an over entitled young man who hadn't got out of life what he felt he deserved (ie women), and, instead of dealing with those feelings, he externalised them and went on a spree. None of that is indicative of a person with ASD. It is indicative of misogyny.

[22honey]

Yes briar, its obvious he was sending the bad vibes out. But as stated in my previous post that may not be the only reason girls were avoiding him. A teenage girl does not want a boyfriend who has such huge difficulties with social and emotional functioning, regardless of how rich he is.

A large part of it could have been his inability to fit in with his peers due to ASD and that this over time became some sort of obsession in his head. He is also clearly a narcissist where everyone else is always at fault, never him.

no one is denying hes a misogynist. I do believe several things contributed to what he did and yes one large part was misogyny.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

Calculated acts of extreme violence isn't a very Aspie thing is it. My impression of people with AS is a tendency to be introverted and being keen on behaving politely and correctly (as making social mistakes are common)

Seems more like narcissism. Which still doesn't excuse him.

[22honey]

'Because you singled out his 'mummy' 22. That's why. '

For gods sake, does everything need to be taken literally on here? A 'mummys boy' existence merely means spoilt and overindulged, I could have easily said 'daddys boy'. Its nothing to do with sexism or blaming women, get a grip ffs.