Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

I never said it did. I'm just making the point that generally we pick a partner based on looks that appeal to us in the first instance. To imagine that this doesn't happen is ignoring the concept of biology, survival of the fittest and all that.
If someone is happy to provide sex, why should the moral brigade tell them they are wrong to do so?
Also the legislation regarding reasonable adjustment covers public buildings granted it doesn't mean every single business must comply if they have sound reason not to.
If you truest believe that no one has a right to sex, put your money where your mouth is and go and tell a group of disabled people that they have no right, come back and let me know how they take it.

Whenthered.
How do you know it isn't about my pleasure. You're assumption once again.
Plenty if my clients do not want me to touch them they would prefer to see my pleasure.
Your next reply will be then that's still about their gratification.

Also it was a hypothetical statement which you just bit into hook line and sinker.
I don't like to be preached at, as I said on my first post on this thread.
You telling me how it is gives the impression that you consider yourself on higher authority than I. Just like feminists assume that the punters are somehow elevated above the pro's that see.
IMO it puts you in the same boat as your hypothetical punters.

But if I am happy to provide a service to fuful that right who is anyone to tell me I'm wrong to do so?

ava biology and survival of the fittest have got fuck all to do with prostitution.

This isn't about you or your pleasure. It is about an activity that is harmful to a significant number of women who are caught up in it. The rights of some number of women who are happy to sell sex are less important than the rights of the women who are harmed. Also, the activity of prostitution harms all women as it perpetuates patriarchal values of women being a sex class for the service of men. Normalising this makes that worse.

Plenty if my clients do not want me to touch them they would prefer to see my pleasure. Your next reply will be then that's still about their gratification.

You said it yourself - it's all about their preferences, not yours. You are performing for their gratification.

For someone who doesn't like to be preached at, you're sure doing a lot of preaching.

Are they really that deluded? They are paying for the services of an individual who irl wouldn't give them a second glance. Some are misogynists but again that isn't endemic to punters.
And by the same token prostitutes must be home wreckers with no moral compass at best and men haters at worst taking their hard earned wages away from their families with no regard for the impact it has on their wives/children.

I refuse to debate with someone who uses derogatory terms about a group of people ie "moral brigade" ie MN Feminists when it is clear that they are bending over backwards to be polite to you.

I don't agree with your individualistic theory, ava, and I think you are being deliberately inflammatory on this thread. I therefore place your opinion no higher than I do the Punters that come on here to derail and confuscate.

I expect you will call "silencing" against you but I rather fear it is the other way round in this instance.

And by the same token prostitutes must be home wreckers with no moral compass at best and men haters at worst taking their hard earned wages away from their families with no regard for the impact it has on their wives/children.

where the fuck did that come from?

Florafox
Do you selectively read posts on this thread?
I never said it did (for the second time)!
It was in response to the post about swinging!
So by your own admission my views and personal experience and those sex workers that hold similar views are less important. I think you just lost your own argument and once again I will leave this board thinking that the FEMs are only concerned with their own moral agenda and listening to views that back it up.

Ava is throwing up straw men that no one has stated or even implied. Who does that remind me of ?

It comes from the principle of equal and opposite concerning:

"Exactly the opposite. I think punters are at best deluded individuals who think they are doing no harm and won't allow themselves to think critically at all. At worse, they are abusive misogynists who believe they are "

I'm just making the point that generally we pick a partner based on looks that appeal to us in the first instance. To imagine that this doesn't happen is ignoring the concept of biology, survival of the fittest and all that.

So what point is this then?

What argument do you think I've lost? I've been pretty clear on all these threads that if there are women out there who are having a lovely time in prostitution, I am going to prioritise the experience of women who are suffering harm and the rights of women as a class over their lovely time with their lovely punters.

I don't have any moral problem with a person choosing to sell sex or perform sexual services for money. I do have a problem with the mindset of someone who wants to buy those services. Which kind of leaves the first without a market.

If it was all hunky dory and everyone is in it for a good time then, again why does money need to change hands? Why have it as a service at all, why not just meet up in a fetish club? Sorry, I think the "pretty women don't like me" argument is bullshit. Attraction is not based solely on looks. If somebody is so repulsive physically and in personality that they can't attract a partner even for casual sex then maybe they need to change their own behaviour rather than looking to buy the services of others.

But I do believe that all men who use prostitutes are by definition misogynistic.

And just in case it isn't clear, ava I think your position is massively selfish and individualistic. As long as you're alright, that's all that matters to you.

I am getting thoroughly confused. I am on board totally with your experiences in the workplace and how shabbily you have been treated re: your race/gender. I must admit I made the assumption you would much rather be doing something else.

I am also completely with you on your sentiment about levelling the playing field. You hit the nail on the head when you comment on how the field is set up to favor men, and women are welcome to apply as long as they operate on those terms.

That whole line of thinking resonates with me deeply. I have thought for a good long while now that humanity had screwed itself by splitting up what essentially should be a whole person, and assigning one half as masculine and one half as feminine, and compounded the sin by denigrating women and therefore half of its own nature.

Until we are all whole again both as individuals and as a society these imbalances are going to continue. My current feeling and it is a feeling rather than a factual point I can support at this stage is that objectification of which sex work
I suspect can contribute to moves us farther away and not closer to healing that rift in our collective psyche.

I've been posting here a little while and although I am a man I haven't felt particularly bashed by feminists, in fact I've often felt included. I suspect irrespective of your views and wether people agree with you or not you are very welcome and your voice valued regardless.