Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

Sorry, posted before I had finished!

Respectful punters who at my lowest time after relationship breakdown boasted my confidence.

Erm, I live in Germany and while the brothels are pretty open about what they are they are certainly not on every roadside.

I don't know what the German Feminists think as I don't know any (I haven't met many people yet and my German isn't at a sufficient level to debate sexual politics either)

I am in prostitution due to lack of meaningful opportunity, isn't that an economic problem not just about inequality?
If I had no dependents them finding decent work would be a lot easier.
How feminism can address the lack of opportunity in an ec

Economic sense I'm not sure.
Perhaps one way forward would be to extend the protected group status to single parents regardless of gender, because at the end of the day a job advertised with an 8.30 start or late finish immediately rules out many single parents of young children.
If I was a single dad, I wouldn't have the option of earning through prostitution I'd still have the same problems concerning child friendly hours.
I'd prefer to sell sex than clean toilets, is that an issue of feminism, or is it a plus I have that option?
At the end of the day prostitution generally isn't in anyone's face, mainstream media, X factor etc is. So siggest that something that is largely hidden unless you participate damages equality seems like the pursuit of personal moral agenda to me.

avaboosmummy what do you think of migsy's experience or the experience of street sex workers or brothel workers who have 10 or more men a day?

Because it is impossible to get a true representation if prostitutes or punters due to the secrecy needed to maintain discretion.
If it turned out that 50% or more prostiturs where happy with their situation and that the same percentage of punters were respectful them I doubt that would change any feminists ciews on the subject. So hence pursuit of own moral agenda.

Bear in mind that mumsnet attacts those punters from IMO the worst punting forum on the net.
They consider posters on the othe punting site to be 'fluffy' as they have IMO a far nicer perspective on the ladies they see.
I haven't read all the posts by migsy but I will later. As for the couple mentioned they sound like people who have been reported on another site.
Being treated like crap isn't just an issue for prostitutes! At least we can say no, try telling a boss to f* off when you've got bills to pay!
Unless feminism can supply a solution to the current labour market issue I'm not convinced by its arguments against prostitution in respect of supporting women.
If it became illegal tomorrow how would sex workers support themselves if you take away their income source?

Ava, not all women in prostitution can say no, or at least get listened to by punters who are determined to carry out a certain act.. This is one of my reasons for allowing brothels. I actually wish I could work in one compared to my situation now.

If 90% of the women in prostitution were happy I may be able to get on board with it. But I'm afraid that I do have a moral problem, not with the idea of selling sex per se, but with the mindset of buying it.

I guess - the key thing for me, what would work better, what if there were clubs, similar to fetish/S&M/swingers clubs which currently exist, where people could go to have no-strings sex with strangers. If it's just about sex with a willing stranger, this would fill the need right? Or if it's about the fantasy of someone being under your control and doing what you want them to do, again, surely people have the opposite fetish and would be happy to be told what to do. There may be fewer women (or men) who want to do this role for fun as opposed to who are happy or forced to do it for money, so it might involve a degree of organisation and perhaps appointments but it would be worth it to know that your partner is fully consenting and actually enjoying themselves, right?

I mean, you could even still have them set up as businesses where both partners are paying for the use of the room or whatever because you'd still need to employ cleaners, schedule appointments, hand over money, pay for insurance etc.

I think that if you start picking this apart and realising the reasons why prostitution fills a different gap in the market to a proposal like this, you get all of the reasons why the concept of buying sex is ethically flawed, and that is why I can't support prostitution even if the majority of prostitutes are happy doing it.

ava what would you think about the experiences of the ~50% of women who were not happy? what do you think about the experience of women who are working on the street or who, like migsy can't say no.

bertie the punters on Women's Hour yesterday and on that link on the other thread make it clear that it's not enough to have sex with a willing stranger. They want the type of sex they cannot ask a "real" woman, sometimes they want a racialised sexual experience and they want it with someone who would never accept them without the money (younger and prettier than the women who would have sex with them for free). The punters talk euphemistically about the type of sex, the guy yesterday gave an example of being tied up wearing wellies invoking an image of harmless old men. Since reading the Invisible Man entries, now I just think of that as a code for anal sex, A2V or A2M.

But there are plenty of people who are unhappy on the work place. Low job satisfaction, low pay, low prospects again it isn't endemic to prostitution.
Plenty of jobs involve risk and just like prostitutes we try to minimise the risk. Should we ban all danger money jobs or just turn a blind eye as it's usually men that do then.
There are plenty of empire building little hitlers out there and although legislation is intended to protect workers it doesn't always happen.
As for social services et al stepping up to the challenge, how do you expect that to happen given the current strain on public services?
Also by making the assumption we all need help is that not somewhat belittling?
I agree that no one should have to sell their body against their wil but I consider that a desperate matter entirely.

Re swingers clubs.
They currently do exist, but it's not as straightforward as that. I would suggest looking on a few websites and see the precautions some clubs urge their patrons to take.
One notion in particular is that it appeals more to the male in a relationship so in that case the female partner isn't 100% a willing participant either.
How do you feel about the TLC trust, should sexual surrogates be willing to provide the service fir nothing?
Or should disabled men and women just accept they will have a life without intimate contact with another person?

REALLY angry here....you've no idea what it's like but when we tell you how it is, you deny our voice

Migsy86 I'm not sure of your personal circumstances, but I also work independently on my own.
I've dine this work for the past two years and on and off for a year before that.
In that time I have only had 2 horrible clients, one left the other who is local to me also left and then got out in his place afterwards. There is one I have decided to not see again as just too weird.
I do have physical stutue on my side, plus I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself if the situation would arise same as if u was working down the street and was attacked

All I'm saying is tha the feminist agenda cannot and will not solve all world problems which is what the posters here seem to imply.
I am by means an expert on fiscal/monetary economic policy but in irder to tackle the perceived problems of prostitution you must really consider the bigger picture and think strategical about the resources available to make life better for those who have no choice but to prostitute.
I can't personally twist anyone's arm into giving me a job if they don't want to.
There are plenty of unhappy people in this world for various reasons, unless you are going to form a 'in the pursuit of happiness' political party with economically sound policy I'm not sure how any one person can alleviate global suffering.

My view on feminism is that historically it has pushed fir women to compete equally in a mans playing field, rather than level the field. Just my opinion!