Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

avaboo I'm still not quite sure if you have answered my question. I think you're saying that the experiences of women like migsy or of women in street prostitution or having sex with 50 men a week are no different than the unhappiness of people in other employment? Not only do I disagree with that view profoundly, it sounds very much like "I'm all right jack". Because you and Minnie are able to dictate what you do and don't do and Minnie has the stature to defend herself, the experiences of other women don't matter?

Buffy, you are getting more and more radical

BuffytheRadicalFeminist. Has a good ring to it.

But I did say earlier forced sex is wrong absolutely. Plus if trafficked women never receive payment are they pristitutes or victims if sexual abuse?
I understand about feminists attempts but I don't think its productive to pitch gender against gender.
If feminism left men out of the equation and focussed purely on the collective strength of women it may make more impact and allow younger women to fully appreciate the movement.
If you are working independently and choose to have punters queuing round the block that's personal choice.
If you are being forced to see people against your will then that's something quite different entirely.

The experiences of other women do matter, I just don't see that for all axe workers they are negative.
Conversely I could question why women who don't have an issue with being a sex worker aren't heard either.

...it's not enough to have sex with a willing stranger. They want the type of sex they cannot ask a "real" woman, sometimes they want a racialised sexual experience and they want it with someone who would never accept them without the money (younger and prettier than the women who would have sex with them for free)....

This is where I think it is wrong. If you can't ask a "real" woman then you shouldn't be allowed to ask anyone. And why women? How can you categorise people like they are items in a shop. A racialised experience... FFS! Because someone's vagina is totally different if it's brown instead of pink, and that's not totally bigoted, oh, and there are no ethnic minorities in the world who are actually looking for casual sex . As for younger and prettier, again, I don't think this is a service that people should be able to buy.

I'm not talking actual swingers clubs like ones that exist now. I'm talking about clubs where the current "prostitute" experience can happen but everyone is a genuinely willing participant, nobody is getting paid. If this is incompatible with what people want from prostitutes then I think there is something wrong with those people wanting those things from prostitutes. I don't think that should be normalised and accepted by legalisation.

I am not fully clear on my views about disabled people using sex workers. The ideal of course would be that society should change its attitude towards disabled people and that they would no longer be seen as unattractive or unfit for a relationship in general, and hence there would be no guaranteed life of being unable to experience such closeness with another person.

However, in the real world, the situation is that most people find disability hard to cope with and it is far less likely that a disabled person will be in a relationship than an able bodied person. It is sad, but is sex a human right? Essentially I don't think that it is. I think it is a gross indication of society that the idea of a disabled person accessing sexual touch through the act of buying another person is more palatable than the idea of someone being in a relationship with a disabled person through choice.

And being honest - are the vast vast majority of punters not able bodied? As it's such a minority, and the motivation of the punter is different, I think we're talking a whole different concept from the idea of prostitution and punters in general.

avaboo the media is entranced with the notion of the happy hooker, it is the predominant representation of prostitution in the media, both fiction and news reports. The idea that women who are having lovely sex with lovely men for lots of money are not being heard is laughable.

Surely the survival of any species is related to combining genes with a partner to create the best possible combination of physical attributes?
At the end if the day people are judged on looks, it would be unusual for a beautiful women to chose a partner who resembles a bulldog chewing a wasp fir the sake of it?
If you think that we should all be able to approach the uber good looking because we perceive them as fit, isn't that what usually happens and can be seen as harassment?
The majority if clients are able bodied but I'm very interested in the work done by TLC and are considering registering.
To consider that disabled people have no right to sex, then surely that view could equally applied to employment, access to buildings etc.
It is easy to hold such a view if you are not in that position.

The media is entranced by that notion, however feminism seems to conclude all sex workers are abused etc isn't right either.

If men were taken out if the equation there would be no human race either! I just think if feminism focussed solely on women it would be before representative of its true cause. Not just women using it as a reason to bash men.

But sex workers do, so why should feminists dictate their own views to the rest of us who don't agree?

Of course it is easy for me to say that. But I don't perceive "access to sex" to be the same as access to employment or a building. In fact there is nothing at all which prevents a disabled person from having a relationship with another person which could be sexual or non-sexual, except for prejudice and individual opportunity. (I suppose then it could be compared to the opportunity for employment. It's not illegal for a disabled person to work but it might be impossible in actuality to find an employer who is willing to consider the person for employment.)

I think it does deserve to be a separate debate because it is totally different to be a person seeking comfort and physical touch because they are unlikely to achieve it any other way, to being someone who likes the idea of buying someone, who does it for power and control, who does not see the woman he is buying as a "real person".

Again if sex workers themselves do not see the concept as abhorrent then why should someone who is not a sex worker hold such strong views?
If it is such an abuse of power, then some of my clients aren't wearing the best clothes etc, at times I wonder who is using who.
I believe that people should be liberated, look at the world in a global context and tell me it's just women that suffer.
Economic strife, war, dictatorial government affect many people. The 80/20 concept is alive and well across the world so perhaps the only way to affect change is to have a global revolution.
And if I get off on selling sex to strangers where dies that leave the argument?

You can't tell from clothes where the power lies? It's nothing to do with economic power and everything to do with status.

If it is obscure where the power lies, then why do women not use male prostitutes in anywhere near as large numbers?