Newnight report on brothels

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Worth £16 billion in Germany. Legal to "make it safer".

Interview with 22 yr old Hannah. 6 men per night, earns 100 to 1000 euros per night,

Talking about should it be illegal in the UK and the fact that brothels are safer than the streets. They have super brothels in Germany.

[FloraFox]

Buffy I had no clue what ava was responding to that but if you are right

How does that even make sense?

[CaptChaos]

If a woman is happy selling sex, if she is selling sex from a level playing field, having chosen that profession out of a plethora of other choices open to her. If she is not having to do it because her 'boyfriend' says she owes him money, because she's poor, because she's missed out on educational opportunities, because she needs a hit, because she was abused as a child and feels that sex is all she has to give. Then, and only then would I say it's a real choice, however, it is a choice which has an impact on women as a class and I think that needs to be acknowledged.

My son is disabled. There is a fairly good chance that he will never have a relationship with a partner of his choice. He knows that sex is not a right, because he's not a fucking rapist. He has been brought up to believe that bodily autonomy is important and that giving someone something, money, sweets, whatever, doesn't give you the right to anything. Should I now teach him that it's ok to pay to be able to have sex on a woman who may or may not be trafficked, coerced, forced into it for reasons of poverty, abuse, addiction, MH problems? That women like that don't really matter, because you can pay to use them for a short while? Not going to do that.

Just to be 100% clear. I and every single woman who comments on FWR have never said that prostituted women should be criminalised. Never. The ones who should be are the punters, the pimps, the brothel owners, the dealers all those who abuse women in this way. Not the women, never the women.

[avaboosmummy]

Once again this debate turns into a group of feminists bashing the only sex worker currently contributing.
It is statements like this that prevent others from voicing their personal experience;

"The rights of some number of women who are happy to sell sex are less important than the rights of the women who are harmed. "

And you expect the argument to be taken seriously when you are only willing to take on board the experiences of those that support your ideals.

A bit like me stating all sahm are downtrodden who are bit empowered because their partner is the breadwinner, all working women are empowered and happy and I'm not prepared to take on board any of their opinions that don't back my statement.
It's n

[avaboosmummy]

My statement about equal and opposite is just that. That is why whilst denouncing all punters as one thing by default you categorise the opposite group as something else.

[migsy86]

Ava, if you are an indie escort then this law won't effect you really. I still fail to see how plod will know if a man has paid for sex unless they have spies in the bedroom.

[avaboosmummy]

Derval
Great post btw.
I only try to debate based on my personal experience I don't like being told by people who only have second hand information on the industry.
I do feel like Daniel in the lions den on this thread as I'm surrounded by individuals who oppose prostitution for various reasons. I think that debate must be carefully thought out, I refer to equal and opposite as taking a strong view of any issue without considering the opposite effect IMO leads to weak argument that sounds more personal than following any specific agenda.
FYI I went to private school (assisted place) so I'm not daft by any way. The barriers or lack of opportunity have occurred for me in my late teens are perhaps that my parents didn't have the social connections oft white middle class peers.
So assuming that all sex workers lack opportunity to gain education etc isn't always going to be the case. There's a lot ore going on than can be easily addressed than simply bashing the sex industry.
Unless anyone on this board can put forward a sound economic plan of how you address the principle of life sply not being fair I don't really see there is enough information from any side to make it cut and dried.
It seems to me that sex industry bashing is taking a simplistic view of socio economic problems.
A bit like saying, " we'll round up all the pros, strippers, cammers, street workers put them all in college, treat their drug problems and give them meaningful jobs".
It is as empty as a beauty pageant winner saying they'd live world peace. Easy to say the words but they have no substance if you have no idea how you'd actually achieve it.

[avaboosmummy]

So if I say all short people are x, am I not then assuming all tall people are y?
If I am not comparing like for like, ie people how can I distinguish who is short in the first place?

[avaboosmummy]

"Why do you want punters and pimps to be decriminalised?"

Currently punters are not breaking the law visiting an escort anyway. At the moment two escorts can't work in the same property without breaking the law. That is an issue, and allowing women to work together may reduce the likelihood if being pimped by a male. It may not work, vulnerable women may still end up taken advantage of by other females.
To answer some if the questions
Started work after long term relationship breakdown.
I escort to earn a living, I like the freedom of not being tied to set hours although like many other self employed people it can be hard when income is sporadic. Overall I earn more than monthly wage for min wage on 16 hours and don't incur costs of travel.
I work independently.
Work from my house.
I advertise online, so costs are minimal, £5 a week advertising and £8 a month phone contract.

[avaboosmummy]

I'm realistic I don't disagree that people or trafficked or are in this industry through coercion. I feel sorry for anyone in that situation, but If punters are criminalised then they will be less likely to report concerns.
So address the power imbalance rather than the act itself.
In terms of economic argument if it supports women and their dependents is that not enough? It may not be 'right' but as I said before show me a workable solution and I'll consider changing my opinion.

[AnyFucker]

I wonder if punters "report concerns" about trafficking very often. And if they do this reporting before or after they have fucked the woman they are "concerned" about.

I don't require an answer, btw.

[migsy86]

In terms of economic argument if it supports women and their dependents is that not enough? It may not be 'right' but as I said before show me a workable solution and I'll consider changing my opinion

This I agree with. There are so many inequalities in the world, but this for the moment is my life. I can't lose my income.

[FloraFox]

ava by your own argument, you can't speak about street prostitution, pimp controlled prostitution, brothels, the impact of addiction, mental health issues, past or present abuse, trafficking or other forms of coercion as you have no experience of them.

Your equal and opposite argument is bizarre.

[AnyFucker]

Only a few messages left on this thread now

[FloraFox]

migsy your pimp has created your economic dependence on prostitution through his fake debt that you owe him and the huge chunk of your income he takes.

[AnyFucker]

migsy I wish you well and I hope you get to pursue your dream one day

[FloraFox]

Saviour-punters are a myth. They don't report their concerns about women unless it is to complain about them on forums.

[AnyFucker]

That's what I thought too