Lapdancing and telling off dh's mate.

[Manchesterhistorygirl]

I blame you lot. Thanks.

Last night dh's friend was telling him all about his recent visit to a lap dancing bar. I told him he and his mates were a bunch of twats and I was disgusted at them all, especially since they all have partners.

I also told dh if I ever found out he'd done the same it'd be the absolute last thing he ever did.

So my nest of vipers, thank you for giving me the confidence to handle a situation I've always found disgusting, but wouldn't have ever spoken out about until I joined here.

I agree that calling for 'a bit of tact' is a different kettle of fish from calling the OP abusive (disclaimer: no actual fish were harmed in the writing of this post).

However, the posters like lib, who called her ranty and unreasonable are equally making an attempt to silence the OP imo. Telling women not be ranty, and that she should have said nothing at the time, and raised it with partner later because she embarrassed him is silencing her. It's telling her that her opinion isn't fit to be aired in the presence of her husband/friend. That women should be demure, and gentle, and not entitled to strong opinions, or to call men out on their misogynistic behaviour. And that's not on.

'I'm honestly trying to envisage a situation where my wife has a mate over & they're chatting & I wade in calling them a bunch of twats etc. and I can't, honestly, think of a time it'd be acceptable.'

^^this. If DH did this to me I'd be so furious I'd probably visit every lap dance club in town to piss him off. And send him photos.

I guess that's one response, samantha. And that would be fine - although, if it was me, I would then exercise my right to end the relationship. Because I don't want to be in relationships with misogynistic idiots who would visit lapdancing clubs as a revenge for my speaking out against them.

I think the point should always be raised, especially in her own home. I would even raise an opinion about religion to someone of faith. If their faith was sexist, racist, disabalist (not a word), etc

Well done op. I do the same if I here anyone talking about going to strip clubs or brothels. I confronted the owner of a strip club near me. I think it is always important to challenge misogyny or any kind of discrimination and inequality whenever you witness it. Maybe it will change some peoples minds and and then their attitudes and actions!

@buffy
I think the problem is we disagree on the degree of lap dancing being sexist and misogynistic.

I would speak up if someone said women should cover their faces in public (but men don't have to), or women shouldn't be allowed into a golf club, or black people are not as clever as white people or homosexual couples should not be allowed to get married. I think there is clear isms in these instances.

However when I say "speak up" I wouldn't say your views are disgusting, and you are an arse. I'd try and engage in a debate, and even agree to disagree if need be.

I think that's where OP went wrong. Her passion wasn't channeled correctly. Id say the same if the sexes were reversed.

It also doesn't sit well with me that OP is looking for a congratulatory pat on the back for being a bit mean to her guest. After all, he didn't think he did anything wrong, its all above the law, and would probably have left feeling defensive in his views.

Fuxache the tone police are out in force tonight.

Congratulations Manchesterhistorygirl

"being mean to her guest"

You are right to speak up and, as it is not always easy to speak up, it can be important to come on here and share that experience.

Lapdancing clubs are, of course, sexist for all the excellent resons already mentioned. In addition, men who are already in a relationship are being unfaithful to their partners when they visit lapdancing clubs as they are joining in with a sexual activity with another woman. just because they haven't touched the other woman does not mean that they have not joined in with a sexual activity. If your friend came round to your house while you were out and stripped for your husband and then sat very close to him waving her breasts and genitals in his face and, instead of removing himself from the situation, he simply sat there and enjoyed it - would you consider that he had been unfaithful? Of course.

Sab - don't derail by picking up on one phrase

ODFOD

It also doesn't sit well with me that OP is looking for a congratulatory pat on the back for being a bit mean to her guest.

She's not. She's thanking fellow women for their help and support over a period of time which has helped her to formulate and articulate her beliefs about a specific subject. She's fairly explicit about that.

It's a real shame that a lot of people are taking from this post how 'mean' the OP is, or how they wouldn't have done the same.

I'm back and hasn't this moved on a lot?

I did not say I would murder my husband I said it would be the last thing he ever did. Meaning in the context of our relationship.

His mate, I repeat GODFATHER to our sons, had been making lots of lovely jokes about women wearing white to get married in because it's the same colour as domestic appliances. Excuse me whilst I don't just sit there and put up with that in my own home! I hope that outs it into context for those (bale) who were asking.

You're right to speak up about that Manchester. He sounds like a twat. That 'white like domestic appliances' is a well-known misogynistic joke

Ignore old Baley's derails - he thinks he's clever. He's not.

I think he's Treen44444 btw. Plus many others probably. Visiting from reddit.

^ Just my opinion of course.

The dumbasses are interchangeable. Matters not which actual one it is. Unless they are all the same grubby little weed getting a semi from having grown up women pay them a bit of attention.

I think it's exactly that AF. They are few but prolific namechangers/new registers. And they all want our attention. Bless.

Thank you for asking am I ok with regards to the "personal attacks". Yes I am, I don't see them as attacks on me, but pathetic attempts to derail the thread over a figure of speech in an attempt to divert from what was actually said and done by someone who is close to my family and who's actions are at best misguided and at worst deliberate mysoginy.

I'm pleased that that's how you feel op. Some pretty nasty stuff has been written on this thread.

But what Beach wrote is right. Solidarity. Strength in numbers.

"I'm honestly trying to envisage a situation where my wife has a mate over & they're chatting & I wade in calling them a bunch of twats etc. and I can't, honestly, think of a time it'd be acceptable."

Well, if someone came into your house and deliberately chose a topic of conversation designed to put you down, then it would be acceptable, no? Someone coming into your home and sneering at you in a passive-aggressive, covert way, designed to let you know that you shouldn't get above yourself and you should just remember that you're not quite as human as they are?

Has this ever happened to you? Because it happens to women all the time. And it happened to Manchesterhistorygirl. When men talk about fucking women or going to lapdancing clubs, or visiting Thai prostitutes, or pore over pornography shouting "phwoar, look at the tits on that!" when women are present, they are doing it in order to deliberately insult, embarrass, control and silence women, to put us in our place and to remind us that we're the sex caste. That we're one of those Untermenschen who are there to be fucked by them. In a workplace context it's known as sexual harassment, it's acknowledged that it creates a hostile environment for women and it's illegal. In our own homes, it's fucking abusive behaviour from a guest and the OP was absolutely right to slap the bastard down.

Venceremos.

And BTW that's gone largely undiscussed on here - how fucking aggressive, rude and hostile the OP's guest was and how actually, him talking about lapdancing clubs, was a calculated insult to her.

The men arguing that she was rude, have completely glossed over how fucking insulting he was. He deserved to be horsewhipped, not just told off.

[NB: I'm not actually abusively advocating horse-whipping nobbers. I'm using that term in the "horse-whip the cad" colloquial sense of the word, which is generally not understood to be a literal exhortation.]

Men: if you don't want women to think you are utter fucking nobbers and actively attacking us, remember not to talk about other women as if they - and by extension we - are bits of meat, in front of us.

We know what you're doing when you do that, even when you pretend that you don't know what we're talking about when we call you on it.

HTH.

Thanks for clearing that up manchester, i bet you are glad your husbands mate doesn't come round anymore. God must be evil to allow you to chose him as a godparent.

Remember to always speak up.