Isn't the name of Mumsnet itself sexist?

[MissPeach]

The Mumsnet slogan is 'By parents for parents', suggesting that it is of course, for mothers and fathers. Yet the name Mumsnet would suggest otherwise. It suggests that the forum is only for women, which in turn conveys the idea that women do more parenting than men.

To be honest, it doesn't irk me that much, but it was just a thought I randomly had, and was wondering other opinions on it.

Ilovemyself.
I didnt realise for half of this thread , that I was actually posting on the feminist section. [I post all over the place on MN, on whatever subject happens to interest me at that time].
But when I woke up to this fact, I do think we have to wise up to the fact that this is not the same necessarily the same as posting in chat, or relationships, or conception, or wherever.
There are some posters that only post on certain boards. Fine. Whatever floats their boat.
But you also have to bear in mind that if you post in feminism you are going to get views from a lot of feminists. So it is not really on to complain that feminists are replying to you.
So, if for instance you want relationship advice, you post in relationships.

AMumInScotland may have explained that in her post of 10.32am
And you are not going to be able to change Rome in a day.

Hi ilikethe breeze.

I am just trying to get my head around the fact that as someone that supports the same ideals as those that post in this section, because I comment or question things I am subject to abuse.

I certainly think telling people to F off is just rude and has no place in sensible discussion

And I am not trying to change the world in a day. I am just asking the same as everyone else - to be treated as equal!

Ilovemyself - the problem is that you appear to be saying that, by having a Feminism section, MN is making itself less attractive to fathers, and that we should therefore change in order to be more "equal".

The problem, for me, is that Feminism is an important part of what it means to be a woman, and a parent, and a human being. People on this part of the forum may occasionally overstate their point, as they do on many other parts of the forum. Personally I also spend a lot of time in "Philosophy & Religion" and "Home Education" and, believe me, making broad-brush statements is extremely common on both.

But that doesn't mean that people should not debate those issues, or that having an area where a group of like-minded people can discuss things of particular interest to them is in any way wrong or unequal.

I discuss religion with atheists, and I discuss HE with people who think all children should be in school. In the Feminism section, there are debates which include comments which are pretty extreme in either direction.

If you don't want to see those debates, then go to the Customise option and hide this topic. I have more hidden than showing, as topics like weaning are no longer my area of expertise.

But if the very idea that someone might talk about men in negative terms makes you feel unwelcome, then I think you need to take a long look at why that is and decide if you might perhaps like to consider how women feel in most areas of life. Equality is a nice idea. Those of us who happen to be female don't get much of it, and have few areas where we can actually be in the majority, and have our views and preferences treated as the norm instead of an oddity. MN happens to be one of them.

Ilovemyself people tell each other to Fuck off all over Mumsnet. Yes it might be rude but it's not about the Feminist boards.

We have a special acronym telling people to fuck off too - ODFOD (oh do fuck off dear). This of course is balances out by the infamous DYMTTSSR - (Did You Mean That To Sound So Rude?).

You might find NetHuns more polite if that is what you like. I don't think they like swearing much over there.

My favourite is WDYFOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM (Why don't you fuck off to the far side of fuck and when you get there fuck off some more). But wait! Is this unladylike? Will we alienate our supporters? Is that why we still don't have equality? >

Let me just say this and then I will fuck off:

I want equality with no conditions. I do not want equality predicated on "good behaviour".

Male or female, swearing just means you have nothing sensible to say. Oh, I can swear with the best of you but I just thought you would be well above that. Obviously not.

And the argument that it is quality with no conditions based on the fact i said swearing was not polite is just stupid. Its not equality based on good behaviour, it is the fact the intelligent civilised people should be able to discuss things without resorting to abuse - something you clearly seem incapable of.

Everyone should expect common decency and politeness. I have not once been rude to you. And I don't see why I should expect the same from you.

so you can "swear with the best of us" but you expect us "to be well above that"? Double standards much?

Intelligent civilised people can swear whenever the fuck they like!

You have said I have nothing sensible to say (because I swear) - that is RUDE!

I said I could swear the the best of you, however I choose not to as I am a little more polite than you. It's not double standards at all - have you seen me swear? No.

And yes intelligent people can choose to swear, they just chose not to!

There have been some very polite people on this part of the forum, but some are plain abusive.

If you want to swear at me as a supporter fine. But swear at someone who you are trying to win over to your point of view and you will never win.

People swear when they get irritated. It happens. On MN it is permitted, because we are treated as adults who are allowed to choose how to express ourselves.

Maybe you need to consider why it is that people on this thread are finding your statements irritating, rather than making this about swearing?

Oh look, not just a goadyfucker, but a prissy goadyfucker. Aren't we the lucky ones.

Perhaps if they explained why they were upset and tried to explain why I shouldn't feel as I do without the abuse it would be much better. But no, it was abuse from the word go.

Yes equality still has a way to go. But you will never change a chauvinists view by telling him to F off.

I give up trying to reason with those who refuse to explain their point of view and insist on being abusive. It's not just about the swearing - it's about the whole attitude of those that do not want to be inclusive or dare I say it equal like I do.

I take it you still don't get why coming onto a Feminism thread and telling us that we ought to do things in a way that suits men better might be considered irritating?

But you will never change a chauvinists view by telling him to F off.

We can never change a chauvinist's view, full stop. That's because it is based on irrationality, not logic. I've concluded that it is a massive waste of time even trying. Eventually, like the dinosaurs, they will become extinct as failure to adapt to the real world deals with them.

If you don't want people to tell you to F off stop being so offensive. See above for all your lovely snippets generalising about feminism. Now why don't you go and read them, shake your head all hurt and ask yourself "why are they so meeeeaaaan to me? What did I do?!" Poor you.

As for whether Mumsnet being sexist, get a grip! There have been numerous men only clubs that have been closed to women and have had genuine power whilst not giving a shit that women haven't traditionally had the resources to start up their equivalent clubs. So don't start whining here until you've camped outside your local working men's club in protest.

Plus the Internet is free FFS! It barely costs anything to start up your own club and there are lots of Dads' Nets. There's even one here. So if you're bothered about the lack of a ParentsforeveryoneNet go and start one. Go on, I dare you.

Ao

Hi Ilovemyself

I've got to say that your username isn't really helping matters. In fact, it's adding to the intial impression you made with me which as you already know wasn't too favourable.

What you may not be aware of is that the posters here are constantly having to explain the same thing over and over again and it's always against someone who takes the starting point of attacking feminism.

You've already had some good advice about starting your own thread if you are genuinely interested in feminism. Why don't you try that ? What is it you want to know ? Do you know for example that before you even post, feminism considers you to have a more advantageous position in life simply by virtue of being a man ? So you're posting on here as someone who inherently has a better position in life simply by having a penis. I don't resent that but in order to engage with you, I would need you to understand that concept. You don't need to agree with it but you do need to understand that's my starting point.

Thanks Blistory

My username was originally because I viewed Mumsnet users as the self important never wrong type. That'll teach me to read the Daily Mail lol.

Thanks for a bit more of an explanation. I understand that people are frustrated but to take it out on one person or to be downright rude to them seems wrong to me. Especially as I am a newcomer who doesn't know what it is like on this forum.

I understand the concept - a dick with a dick lol. The concept I am struggling with is those that are taking that view are going past equality and then belittling men. This is not what I understood feminism to be.

I need to think about the wording as I really don't want to annoy but yes I will start a feminism for men thread!

Have a good evening 😄

My username was originally because I viewed Mumsnet users as the self important never wrong type.
Lol this guy is so not rude to mumsnetters. He must had totally good intentions for coming here, right? I have no idea why someone would sign up and post here if they were put off by the site name, content and people's posting style?

Honestly, ilove, on any thread of the all men are crap variety, regulars on the FWR board are amongst the most vocal in saying "not all men, though that person you mentioned does sound crap." Lurk before you post and you might learn something.

I have another dare for you. Why don't you pick a religion, find a forum frequented by its followers, join it and venture how you have nothing against religious people in general, just not the ones that "take things too far", oh and point out how having such a forum discriminates against atheists. Go on!

Ah bit too scary for you is it? Easier to pick on the feminists isn't it?

Oh and don't flatter yourself that people don't like you cos you're a man. Feminists like men plenty. Just not the "woe is me" kind.

Ok KaseyM. I am not picking on feminists. I was asking questions and making my point felt. But of course. As I have male genetalia I must be picking on feminists according to some people.

And Yonitime. Yes I came her with reservations and not knowing if I would get help and would only be preached to. But I was wrong in the most part. In fact, this is the only place on Mumsnet where I have encountered abuse.

Let's get one thing straight here though. It is NOT my fault that women are discriminated against. Did i start it? No. And I would always stand up for ANYONE being discriminated against. It still doesn't justify the flaming on here. Obviously some of you just want to pick a fight rather than being reasonable and either discussing or pointing out why someone is wrong. To those of you, whatever. I will speak to those that are sensible enough to teach me if I need to learn something, and who can debate things. I am happy to admit when I am wrong ( like I was about Mumsnet initially) - are you!