Isn't the name of Mumsnet itself sexist?

[MissPeach]

The Mumsnet slogan is 'By parents for parents', suggesting that it is of course, for mothers and fathers. Yet the name Mumsnet would suggest otherwise. It suggests that the forum is only for women, which in turn conveys the idea that women do more parenting than men.

To be honest, it doesn't irk me that much, but it was just a thought I randomly had, and was wondering other opinions on it.

[midgebabe]

Ok... I am pushing a line I don't agree with, but since our friends don't seem willing or able to come out with any coherent rationale....It came out of a discussion about amnesty and why they seem to be a bit bonkers

Caveats aside, here goes.

If we start with basic principles such as everyone is innocent until proven guilty and we should treat every human as the unique individual that they are, not classify people

This leads us to racism is bad, but also treating people different because of their sex is bad.

making any kind of statement such as " women deserve safe spaces /loos/ websites/ sports because so many men are bad" is treating men as a group , not in their individual merits, and is treating them as guilty without proof, so is very very bad. After all, it is almost certainly impossible for anyone of us to prove any specific actions any one of them has taken as individuals that have led to the current patriarchal society. ( it's like trying to prove climate change by focusing on one storm. You can't. )

Now we might say that we are not doing anything different to men, they can have their own spaces if they want, that if we didn't have our own spaces our voices would be lost to men, that men and women are different and that material reality, but then we would still all be in the wrong because we would be treating men as a group.

Any group or person who strongly values the individual over society, rather than in balance, any individual who refuses to engage in class based analysis because of its inherent discrimination , will always end up at this point. It's a very common attitude of people with top jobs who think it's because they are great , not because they are lucky in where and when they were born. Because the later takes away their achievement from them.

Women will be failing in their eyes because of the individual failings of each individual women,...because the people making these judgements are totally aware of the evils of discrimination and so would never in a million years be acting in a discriminatory manner. We should all be human, not worrying and highlighting the differences between women and men.

Women who want equality should not try to achieve it through separating men and women but should grab it because it's women, not men, who are driving sex discrimination today

This may be where some posters are coming from

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

Oh, didn't notice this was a zombie

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

I haven't rtft but no. There's nothing wrong with mothers having a space on the internet to discuss things that affect them. It's only a 'problem' if you think mothers should always include everyone else, even in their own spaces.

[Gncq]

Why did PappleApple revive this thread from seven and a half years ago?

[Winesalot]

Oh dear.... the March of the zombie. ...

[RedDogsBeg]

@Pappleapple

Brilliant. Again, it just shows what mumsnet has become. Someone mentioned I was a man in a very inappropriate manner. I’m actually female. I just don’t agree with divisional groups per gender. We will Never work together with groups like this. “Dadsnet “ or “mumsnet”. It should be “parentsnet” to ensure we can all collaborate and work together. Bye

You haven't come up with a single coherent argument as to why single sex groups should be mixed sex. You referenced gyms and swimming pools earlier but failed to say what the problem with female only sessions are, what horrendous things are befalling males because of female only gym and swimming?

You don't say what we are working together for, what are we collaborating on?

Why is the title of a website causing so much distress and angst?

You haven't made any kind of case at all just lobbed odd comments around, haven't backed them up, haven't answered questions - you are aware that working together actually requires you to do this? Do you think that working together means that everyone must just accept your vague thoughts and do as you say?

[ErrolTheDragon]

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

people who are too prudish to say sex when that is what they mean, and revert to 'gender' instead, frequently don't make much sense in my experience. it's like a handy little signpost: nonsense ahead!

It's particularly odd on a (primarily) parenting website.

[HecatesCatsInXmasHats]

Yes Bernard! Sex is too yucky isn't it? Real life, mucky, visceral, instead of rainbow sparkles, floaty unicorns and general wafting.

[BernardBlackMissesLangCleg]

people who are too prudish to say sex when that is what they mean, and revert to 'gender' instead, frequently don't make much sense in my experience. it's like a handy little signpost: nonsense ahead!

[EyesOpening]

[quote EyesOpening]pappleapple
I’ve found some other groups for you to go and tell them that you don’t agree with gender divisional groups

mensgroups.co.uk/

www.malejourney.org.uk/

And here’s an article about “the rapid rise in men’s support groups”

www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/mens-groups[/quote]
Do please come back and tell us how you got on telling them that “There is no need for gender only groups in anything” and men aren’t the only ones who (insert whatever they’re discussing here)

[VulvaPerson]

@ErrolTheDragon

Thinking about the blokes who are on MN in general, and both sexes on FWR in particular, the general rule seems to be that those who aren't sexist find MN non sexist, it's the misogynists who do.
Funny, that.

This seems to translate to real life too. The only men I find who are worried about 'what can you say/do these days?!' are the..dodgy ones. Those who actually respect women, do not have such concerns, or do not voice them anyway! The only men who find 'women only spaces' to be an issue, are the very ones who should never be allowed anywhere near such spaces. From my experience anyway.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Thinking about the blokes who are on MN in general, and both sexes on FWR in particular, the general rule seems to be that those who aren't sexist find MN non sexist, it's the misogynists who do.
Funny, that.

[EyesOpening]

pappleapple
I’ve found some other groups for you to go and tell them that you don’t agree with gender divisional groups

mensgroups.co.uk/

www.malejourney.org.uk/

And here’s an article about “the rapid rise in men’s support groups”

www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/mens-groups

[ErrolTheDragon]

@Dervel

I’ve posted here for many years as a bloke, with I hope causing minimal frustration. Most people here will give you a fair shake if you are respectful, listen and read the room a little bit first. It really isn’t beyond the gift of most men to behave that way.

These are complex topics especially if you don’t have the experiences a lot of women have, I’d recommend talking less and listening more.

Yup, you and quite a few others. Lots more on other boards too. But you don't fit the UP's narrative that women and men can't coexist peacefully and productively on MN.

[InterfectoremVulpes]

I thought you were a man? As evidenced by your own post.

Datchoo Pips? 😲

[ErrolTheDragon]

@CatsCantCatchCriminals2

Does anyone else think this is Ricky Gervaise 'avin a larf?

No, he's generally quite funny and often original.

[InterfectoremVulpes]

See you in an hour or so papple 👋

[HecatesCatsInXmasHats]

@Pappleapple

Look at how most of you respond. A man has an opinion and you meet that with criticism, patronising and toxic behaviour. It’s really saddened to witness. Which, evidences my point about what happens when you have single gender groups within a society that needs to work together.

I thought you were a man? As evidenced by your own post.

[VulvaPerson]

Also I am sure, that renaming the site parentsnet would instantly solve all the problems. Just..more nonsense.

[VulvaPerson]

Someone mentioned I was a man in a very inappropriate manner. I’m actually female

Great. Well theres more proof, that its not 'men' who get this treatment,. but people who come onto the feminist board and say antifeminist things!

[CatsCantCatchCriminals2]

Does anyone else think this is Ricky Gervaise 'avin a larf?

[MedusasBadHairDay]

We're going to have to fit a revolving door on here at this rate

[BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero]

Bye!

[Pappleapple]

Brilliant. Again, it just shows what mumsnet has become. Someone mentioned I was a man in a very inappropriate manner. I’m actually female. I just don’t agree with divisional groups per gender. We will Never work together with groups like this. “Dadsnet “ or “mumsnet”. It should be “parentsnet” to ensure we can all collaborate and work together. Bye

[Dervel]

I’ve posted here for many years as a bloke, with I hope causing minimal frustration. Most people here will give you a fair shake if you are respectful, listen and read the room a little bit first. It really isn’t beyond the gift of most men to behave that way.

These are complex topics especially if you don’t have the experiences a lot of women have, I’d recommend talking less and listening more.