Sorry if someone was made to feel unwelcome

[GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt]

I refer to a complaint made to Rowan on the 'sleeping with the enemies' thread - it was made by a gay woman who felt that she was being made to feel unwelcome.

I don't know exactly what the complaint was but I assume it is to do with the lesbophobia terminology used.

I am really sorry if that has upset someone - it is not a word intended as an insult. I only used it in context of an argument about vile thread a few months back. In that thread a MNer (who happened to be gay) stated some very distasteful and triggering views, and a good number of MNers complained about it and rebuked her on the thread. Another MNer (call her X) said that this was a mark of 'lesbophobia' (her words) and that a lot of MNers were homophobic.

This was strongly contested by lots of people - I am not homophibic in the least, and neither are most of us on here, there are plently of long standing gay women on MN, and some were raised in families with gay women, so for a great sweeping statement of 'you lot are lesbophobic' was bloody out of order.

Hence the reference to it on that thread. I am sorry that it was upsetting, it is certainly not a word I use and I only used it in the context of the above. I can see that at best it looks like ignorant flippancy and at worst looks insulting. So please accept my apologies.

Rowan - if you want to delete this thread as you don't want another bunfight please can you forward my apology to the MNer mentioned by you (I am going to report this post but I think this is the best way to communicate directly with MNHQ). Thanks

I finally went to bed, too, at about 1.30am!

I agree that a message might usefully be (for teenagers and many, many MN posters on the boards) - it's not love if there's no respect. A bit naive maybe, but I mean well...

I go back to what I said eons ago.

TELL CHILDREN THE TRUTH. THE COMPLICATED AND MESSY TRUTH.

Oh, hully, you don't want to destroy their innocence do you?

I have been racking my brains trying to remember who it was that had a full on snog with daftpunk at the MN Xmas do in 2009 or thereabouts

wasn't it scuzzy chav reality?

or chavvy scuz?

innocence = early pregnancy/std/etc...

I agree with Hully.

I will always tell my children the truth. Ok, not in such stark terms (they're 5 and 2) but as they get older, I will add more information.

I hate people that talk down to kids, lie to them and uphold this 'ideal' we're all supposed to buy into of 'love' and 'romance'.

Disney has a lot to answer for.

Peopel marry HORSES ffs.

Some get aroused by hamsters.

Humans are utterly barking, best they know.

L&G/single parent families/ troilism etc is the least of it

Me too. There are still people who cross the road when they see me coming because my dd told all her friends all about it when she was 5. "They didn't know anything mum- but it's all right, they do now"

It was Reality, Norma.

BTW

Mary
I've actually been thinking about a blog post about this and about controlling behaviour.

Will have a think later and see what I come up with. Would like to do one for teens / adults and one for preteens (without sex, about friendships and controlling people)

Been meaning to write for ages but havent had time

This thread is really thought-provoking.
I uses to work with teenagers and admittedly they were not always highly representative but what I found is, it wasn't that they thought they were in love; they simply didn't expect better. The girls thought you 'had to put out' to maintain your relationship, some accepted domestic abuse as a sign of caring and the boys felt you had sex with a girl but you had fun with your mates. They didn't really 'know' one another. There was little privacy and confidentiality either; both sexes spoke freely about their exploits.
One of the saddest things for me was when one asked me if I liked my partner, when I replied in the affirmative, they were slightly shocked and sceptical.

Late to this thread. I agree that the 'loving relationship' is misconceived. I think trust is a much more important word.

To have sex with someone you need to trust that person not to hurt or exploit you, expose you to infections and other dangers, and not to demonise you or manipulate you by playing on your feelings. Much more important for kids who aren't having serious relationships than the 'love' word.

Mary
I won't link on here, but I have done two blog posts. Not on this topic directly but on controlling behaviour. Will follow up with another post in a day or two about sex ed and 'society norms'. Link on my profile to my main blog, and the other is linked from there.

I've just read it, MmeL, really good.

Thanks, Linerunner. I have been meaning to write these posts for months. Glad to finally get them done.

Another one here who thinks the 'loving relationship' stuff is unhelpful and wrong. My DS is 8 and we have had one or two conversations about relationships (not sex, yet: I'm afraid we haven't gone beyond the idea of a 'special cuddle' that makes a baby, because he asked me about it when he was 5 on a packed commuter train and that's what I said). For instance, he knows that men can 'marry' men and women can 'marry' women - I used the word 'marry' as a kind of catch-all for 'have a couple-relationship with' that he could understand. He knows that babies grow in women's wombs, but he also knows that the woman who grows the baby isn't always or necessarily the baby's parent, because I was adopted as a baby therefore I didn't grow in Nana's tummy but in someone else's.

Damnit MmeL - my firewall at work won't let me see your blog - I was going to read it while eating lunch at my desk.

Probably because it has the word "sex" in it too many times

The irony is, I work in a school - which is where we started with this whole discussion!

Hearts
You should be able to view the Jump mag one - it is safe for work.