Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

Someone said I hadn't provided any evidence so here goes

www.prostitutescollective.net/TraffickingMoreOrLessRadioProg.htm

Transcript of Fiona MacTaggart being slam dunked live on radio 4 exposing her hypocrisy and lies (can't find audio anymore since it's 3 years ago, but I'll keep looking)

Video of Denis MacShane's "25,000 trafficked women" lies being exposed

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated

Nick Davies in the Guardian writing far more eloquently than I can regarding the lies told regarding trafficking numbers even when it's a minister and there is an official source.

Many sources regarding age of entry into prostitution - can't find the one I'm looking for but my point was that 14 is clearly untrue (for the UK at least). Bearing in mind that even those of you on here would have to admit that off street prostitution contains hardly any girls under 18, just how young would the on-street prostitutes have to be to bring the overall average age down to 14? You'll just have to take my word that as I said it came from a street survey which looked ONLY at those girls who were underage on entry. The age was guaranteed to be below 18.

Obviously you'd already exposed the Australia myth yourselves but a little later than I would have hoped if you'd been looking objectively (in my opinion)

How about we make it illegal for you to buy sex. That way you don't risk raping either the 13 y/o or the trafficked 25 y/o

"How can you enjoy sex knowing the woman is only doing it for cash and wouldn't touch you with a bargepole otherwise?"

You could make the same argument about masseuses, and the answer is the same - one doesn't consider the enjoyment of the other party.

Home office stats quoted in Men Who Buy Sex say average age 15.

The figure comes from Paying the Price consultation paper - see Annex C for a breakdown. It's based on a review of lots of studies asking adult prostituted women what age they were when they started.

I trust the home office's stats a lot more than I trust you.

Carmen...no, I'm 36 and single (and I'm not fat either 6'0 and 12st7lb). Never used prostitutes when I've been in a relationship. I think "wouldn't touch with a bargepole" is a bit harsh....probably true of some of the women, no doubt; but some of them would have slept with me, just not necessarily within 2 minutes of meeting me. Some women like me, some don't - some of the ones who do will be prostitutes. And just because they don't like me doesn't mean than they're repulsed. It isn't love/hate - there are shades of grey in attraction.

I would agree that if you hate prostituting yourself the job is worse than hating being a Tesco checkout worker. But you're an adult. If the only thing keeping you in the job is your own desire to earn the money then it's no different to anything else in the long run. The world is full of jobs I couldn't imagine doing - I have no idea why the guys sweeping the streets don't find something else. Couldn't imagine working in a sewer as many people do. I'm fairly sure the girl who served me in McDonald's on the break today wasn't having a good day....but they stick it out as there's nothing else on the horizon. I remember a politician saying that prostitution "is not a choice it's a choice made through lack of choice". My point was that the same could be said of many other people, including some of you on here. There are very few people who are genuinely slaves in UK prostitution.

A massage is a service one person can do for another. Sex is something two (or more) people do together, at least it is in my world. Also, masseuses don't generally risk HIV, gonnorrhoea, chlamydia, pregnancy, abortion, being beaten up, being raped, having all their earnings taken by a pimp ...

Plentyofpubes - I suggest you read Nick Davies article I've just, conveniently, linked to above your post regarding the official statistics.

Also how about we make it illegal for you to drive a car, that way there's no danger of you running someone over....or shall we just make the dangerous driving illegal and let you drive safely as you normally do?

Even a non-trafficked prostitute who 'loves' her job risks all of those things.

Meanwhile you risk raping someone every time you buy sex and you don't appear to give a shit. You don't accidentally buy a woman's body - you are culpable in a way that a driver who has an accident simply isn't.

she risks those things sleeping with anyone. Although given that most prostitutes use condoms with every single client (unlike people in casual flings) their risk is minimal, the chances of a condom failing the with the one guy who actually has something to catch is fairly small. As I keep saying - they're adults. If they can join the army, be sent to Afghanistan, get shot at, get their leg blown off, come home, marry the guy who their parent's and friends have told them is a complete c*nt, get a mortgage, gamble away the compensation money from having their leg blown off and take out more debt on credit cards and loan I don't think walking into a brothel and selling sex to get themselves financially back on track is the worst/biggest decision they've made in their lives. And, hey, a one-legged war-hero prostitute is a hell of a gimmick she'll make a packet!!!

I don't accidentally buy a hooker, but that doesn't make me a criminal - it's only if she's an underage or forced hooker that I cause harm. Just as you go out for a drive but it's only when you go too fast and then look down to change a CD and.....oops, dangerous driving it is. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - you can break the law and harm people in a million different ways. How about we just stick with the stuff that has a victim and make that illegal and let those who haven't got a victim walk around and get on with their lives.

I will be very happy when what you do is illegal and causes you to be put on the sex offenders register.

Even if it was made illegal it wouldn't be an offence worthy of the sex offenders register, just as kerb crawling/soliciting doesn't get you on the list either. It's just a fine. Nice to see you've ran out of sensible arguments though and just resorted to feminist rhetoric.

Reality- your earlier response to me goes some way in explaining why I think it is the punters who should be criminalises rather than the prostitutes.

You -being a self confessed punter- will not agree. But plenty has it right - how on earth do you know that a prostitute you visit is not one of the many who are trafficked/pumped/abused/drug abused? What responsibility do you think YOU have as a punter?

And don't tell me you're not peddling the happy hooker myth when you talk of belle de hour and earning £100k! If so many prostitutes were enjoying the job and earning that it would be a very desirable career to many - but it isn't. It is a choice made by women who have no other choices. Runaways, drug addicts, girls brought up in care, girls who feel they have no other option. Those are the girls you're 'buying' sex from- but I imagine you don't want to see that.

If prostitution were such a lucrative and harmless profession then men would be doing it.

As I think I said elsewhere, many men are prostitutes. The fact they are used by men does not affect what they are.

It seems many of the posters here forget that.

Which is why the 'users' are the ones who should be criminalised. I dont exactly think it's a high-flying career for men.

Which is why the 'users' are the ones who should be criminalised. I dont exactly think it's a high-flying career for men either.

running....I've addressed all those issues. I brought up belle de jour to point out that she's the opposite extreme i.e. slavery isn't "normal" and doctorate student with brains to spare turning to prostitution isn't "normal" either.

I also addressed "choice through lack of choice" - I used that exact phrase. It could be applied to any waitress, sewerage worker, street sweeper, bus driver (like me), or Tesco checkout girl. They can all quit their jobs and so can almost all prostitutes. I never said that they were all enjoying their job. Just that they'd chosen it as freely as anyone else chooses their job, and they can walk away as easily as I can walk away from my job. But I don't as I'd be financially screwed. That's why they don't walk away either. Taking prostitution away from them would just see them unemployed or working twice the number of hours a week in Tesco for 20% of the money. I'm sure they'll shake you warmly by the hand for their liberation and be astounded why they hadn't thought of it themselves.

Plus your list at the bottom just shows that you are happy to peddle the messed-up abused kids "extreme" as the normal hooker. I've never claimed belle de jour as being normal but YOU persist in claiming drug addicted, abused as children and brought up in care as normal for prostitutes.....who's biased here?

The vast majority of prostitutes are women and if, like you say, the male prostitutes are used mostly by men that only proves one thing: that men are the ones that feel entitled enough to sex to pay for it.

It's ridiculous that any male poster here can possibly put themselves in the shoes of a woman and imagine what informs their choice to become a prostitute, or how the issue of prostitution affects women who are not. You have the luxury of talking in hypotheticals, safe in the knowledge that it will never affect you. It is never a choice that you will have to make.

I put myself in no position. I politely inform you that prostitutes aren't women, they are prostitutes.

No, I can't imagine being in that position? Can you? If not, perhaps you understand them no better than I do.

If you can imagine yourself in that position, you could have talked to my ex-GF. She told me why, she did it - no, I didn't understand it.

Prostitutes aren't women????? Do they lose their humanity, then?

Reality - somebody very wise once said that in a civilised society 'no human being should be bought or sold'. When you enter a transaction in a brothel you are, at the very least, taking a risk that a human being is being sold to you against their will - or at Least their bodily orifices rented to you- and you don't care.

You don't care because you buy into the belle de hour myth. That these women want to enter into a transaction with you, that the transaction is a mutually beneficial one. Well, apart from the (dubiously sourced) ones you mention - it is not an even transaction. Not one bit.

You are a punter, and so in a position of power. You have the money she needs either for her pimp, her drug addiction or because she's desperately in debt. or some other reason - it's unlikely to be because she fancies a jaunt to New York and snagging strangers is a good way to finance it.

So think on that next time you fuck a young a girl ( who looks 25) for £40. Ask yourself how many men - at £40 a time (mentioned on the other thread) she has to fuck to make £100k pa.

It's 6.8 per day. Perhaps she's a high class hooker? Charges more? I'm just going by figures given on the other thread.

OneLady, I suspect what OMC means is that the term 'prostitute' is not synonymous with women because men can be prostitutes as well.

I sincerely hope so, blueshoes, because as it stands...

But I'm willing to assume no malice.

Ok realitychecker, you are single so you are not deceiving anyone. I got that wrong. So why do you prostitutes? As a stop gap between gf's.

Perhaps realitychecked pays far more than £40 per shag? Well maybe. But I just looked up prices for sex in London on google and they came in at under £40 shockingly. So ask yourself how many men these women have to fuck to get that amazin £100k a year thy he talked of. Why pay more I wonder reality ?