Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

mcmooncup

But peoples choices are limited full stop.
I don't feel that they are contradictory as humans we work on an emotional level, so what is rational to you isn't going to be the same for me.
I do not believe that as women we can have children, a high powered job, a great relationship, it just doesn't work.

At the end of the day I have options, live on benefits, take a low paid job, take a better paying job and put my children with carers 11 hours a day, work as an escort.
How do you envisage a single mother's choices will be opened up if you take away the one of those options?
According to Sabrina, I should take the first one and me and my children end up martys so she can continue her feminist rhetoric.

I just think the questions that are being asked here cut to the differences at the heart of our biology. We want to compete with men, but we also want to be able to have children, toddle of on maternity leave and come back to our old jobs like nothing has changed, how do you find the middle ground here?

Listen,xxcxx.You say you 'chose' this line of work.Well,this is the Feminism section and we don't believe in choice.You should be ashamed of yourself.
p.s Are you by any chance within driving distance of Middlebrough? Mrs Lollygag has let herself go in recent years.

Dont worry about the long post ava,I appreciate you taking the time and effort to post it.

mcmooncup, thats just life and the way things work

I suppose someone who slaves away in mcdonalds or cleaning the streets isnt making a free choice either, as they are likely only doing their work because it is a job that earns money

its silly not to just accept that although doing this work is not for everyone, and you might think cleaning toilets all week for less money is better, not all women do

I dont care what section is i, I'm sorry

its very patronising for you to presume I dont have a choice, when I've clearly told you I have and made that choice myself

I dont need this money to survive, as I get sent money monthly from my dad who is a businessman in the US

I do it because it is a good lifestyle choice for me, as I said I speak to clients via email and phone before I meet them, so I can be sure we will get on

i dont expect you to understand as you clearly have different morals to me, which is fine

just respect other womens choices and opinions

Ava, what you are describing are ongoing problems associated with women gaining equality in the workplace. These are by no means solved - but the legislation protecting women is a good thing.

Nobody on this thread has said, or even implied, that all the worlds ills are caused by prostitution. However it is a part of it. My point was this:

In sweden prostitution......is officially acknowledged as a form of exploitation of women and children and constituted a significant social problem...gender equality will unattainable so long as men buy, sell and exploit women and children by prostituting them.

I have never insinuated that the worlds ills can be blamed on one group of people. That's a straw man argument. But all governments recognise prostitution as a social problem.

I'm sorry you feel I don't have the right to disagree with you because you are currently working as an escort- but I am also entitled to my opinion on this forum. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to differ.

And I do believe you invoked Godwin's Law there; I haven't actually read mein kampf, my politics are waaaay left of that.

its quite amusing you say you dont believe in choice in the feminism section, thats obvious really as you dont believe women like me should have the choice to entertain men for a fee or not

You could do with reading some of Xenia's posts about women accepting low paid work as their destiny - it does seem both of you have bought into the idea that 'legitimate' female work has to be low pay. Although it is true to a certain extent that much of 'women's' work is low pay, I would argue that both of you show entrepreneurial spirit that could also be put to other uses where high wages are available.

Gosh Ava, I do believe you have just 'lost' the debate

How dare you compare women who are genuinely concerned about the welfare of other more vulnerable women (and yes I get that you're not one, whoop-de-doo) with that man.

I know Godwin is not generally done on MN, but really!

Because I simply do not buy that women working in prostitution is solely to blame to female inequality.
Of course I am concerned about vulnerable women, but I find by taking away a choice for them to take to lft themselves and their families out of poverty doesn't show concern for vulnerable women either.
If you are prepared to allow the choice to be taken away without addressing the consequences then it appears that this argument is down to the feminist ideals over the rights of 1000's of individuals.

sabrina, men and transexuals are also involved in the sex industry

can you blame that on gender equality in the workplace? I also know married couples and partners who make their money through offering couple services, be it escorting or webcam

to the other poster, why should I be ashamed? Im healthy, happy, 22 years old with no DCs and my own 3 bedroom house, I have family and enjoy my work and free time. Why shouldnt I have a choice?

Who are you to decide living in poverty or doing a low paid job is better for women than escorting? Isnt that a decision they should make for themselves?

Why is it patronising to say you don't have a choice?

You have just posted......"thats just life and the way things work", so you already accept that your choices for high paid work are limited? You are agreeing then getting arsey when someone else points it out

Ava "Because I simply do not buy that women working in prostitution is solely to blame to female inequality."

No-one has said that. In fact, it is quite the opposite.

I truly don't get the "live in poverty" or "be a sex worker" argument when you say you have a free choice?? It simply doesn't make sense.

xxcxx - I find it helpful to either take wisdomoflollygag's posts as incredibly tongue in cheek or to completely ignore him. alternatively you could report him for blatantly obvious trolling

xxcxx. Read the posts about prostitution being a gendered issue. I'll say it again, I didn't write the bit in italics - irbid the cornerstone of the Nordic model.

Btw wisdom was being sarcastic. But vaguely amusing.

mcmooncup

I don't believe low paid jobs are a female destiny, in reality this is why there is still a huge gender pay gap.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I've always had ambition, always had a plan, but it is very hard to see a rosy future when you end up in a hand to mouth situation.
I hope to change career by supporting myself through study as an escort, I wager to say many women are doing just that.

Do you do want out, Ava?

mcmooncup, because you dont know know me apart from what I have told you

I do have a choice, I do not work because I need the money and have already told you I worked with a woman who gave up a high paid job to do this work

a lot of peoples choices for high paid work arnt very high, including a lot of men

that doesnt mean that this criteria applies to all escorts

you are ignorantly presuming all girls do it because they cant get a higher paid job, which is not the case

I have told you why I do this work, what it has been like for me and some of the many girls I have worked with, I still dont appreciate you telling me I have no choice because I do

I truly don't get the "live in poverty" or "be a sex worker" argument when you say you have a free choice?? It simply doesn't make sense.

Realistically what other choices to you think should be available?
I could go to uni and become a docter or a lawyer, I do have that as an option, it's just not the right one for me, plus it costs money and why do you think that women should be put at the top of the list when there are plenty of other people who's choices are limited by situation.

I just think that anyone who thinks that we can all get high paid jobs is deluded.
If that was the case we wouldn't have unemployed graduates, not to mention age discrimination faced by many.

Please tell me what other options you would make available and how you propose to finance this given the current economic situation.
I personally believe that micro economics is perhaps where the answer lies, however no one will lend money to small business, let alone start ups.

OK, xxcxx, how did you get into the work? Who offered you the first job?

What were your other choices at the time you went into sex work when you were 18?

Or what other choices do you see yourself to have at the moment to earn your living?

mcmooncup, you implied women do this because of the lack of high paid work, obviously you think everyone does it to get out of poverty

i expained this isnt the case, but even if it was, who are you to decide getting paid for sex is a worse option than other things?

you are against sex work, which is fine, but you have no right trying to force me or anyone else to give it up because it doesnt fit your feminist ideals and because you dont like that men can buy sex

aslong as they are buying it off a willing girl, which I can assure you most men are doing their online research and finding the best girls these days, surely it shouldnt matter?

Do I want out?

I don't mind working, at the moment it's helping me get to a position of stability.
The reason I can't see myself doing this forever is because of a, the attached social stigma, b, It doesn't sit easily with my religious beliefs.

If someone came and offered me a decent paid job, decent hours etc I'd consider but I like the freedom that escorting brings.

I've also had some rubbish work experiences since becoming a mum, and this makes me reluctant to wok for someone.

In a way I guess I'm upholding you argument about choice, but if you take the option of prostitution away then that just means less choice.

I think it's about changing hearts and minds and from personal experience it seems we have got a long way to go.

I decided i wanted to try this work whilst still in a relationship with my exDP, inwhich the relationship was failing as we were growing apart (he was my first serious bf etc)

I read about it and did my research on a great escorts forum i still post on, and by looking at other sites and visiting girls profiles

I then set up an adultwork account with some pics from my mobile and went on from there

as I said I receive money (in the 100s, not that it matters), from my dad monthly

I didnt need the money but as I enjoyed sex with different men (without it getting me a local rep as it had in the past), I decided to try it, I get £140 an hour, £270 for 2 hours

I had a part time job in a hairdressers at the time, was financially fine but didnt want to work so many hours and was sick of losing out on my Saturdays

it worked for me, basically and still does

I did not do it because I needed the money or anything else, I often take a month off work just to do what I like, that is the great thing about the job

finances are NOT my problem, so you going to think of something else that is? ermmmm, no child abuse or rape or abuse in my past either

ava You are essentially agreeing that your choices are limited. And that is the point of the thread really. And why people are feminists because more women's choices are limited than most men's. But I agree that many people are limited by many things, but that still doesn't negate the fact that women as a group are discriminated against in many ways.

What can you do? You were hand to mouth, you do what you do to survive, I get that totally and actually admire you for that. However, I worry how it will affect you in the future psychologically. Sorry but I do.

And FWIW I hope you are successful in your study and become what you would like to become then become a feminist