Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

It just needs the right government Xenia, one that sees gender equality as a priority, as is the case in Sweden and Norway.

sorry, only meant one anti not a double negative.

SabrinaMulhollandJones Wed 12-Sep-12 16:01:03
Onemorechap- I would 'damage to women on business' is on a par to 'damaging to women' wouldn't you?

Nope, doesn't parse.

I would expect that beach was saying profiteering prostituted women was not the same as profiteering from drugs and alchohol.

Doubt it, as she posted before I pointed out the organised crime links...

Sorry, getmore, but your post did make me laugh. Anti anti discrimination laws. Okaaay.

Lifes really crappy- let's just let it carry on like that.

Yes, that was what I meant Sabrina, thank you.

Chap compared attitudinal shifts to the consumption/commodification of women to attitudes towards products such as alcohol and drugs. The point was so glaringly offensive that I couldn't quite bring myself to spell it out for him a second time.

(He also decided that laws, such as the Swedish ones 'probably' wouldn't affect attitudes at societal level - the evidence from Sweden shows that his speculation is incorrect, there has been a marked shift in attitude.)

Who would you say 'damaging to women in business' is damaging to then, onemorechap? It'd be women.

Lifes really crappy- let's just let it carry on like that

That's not what I said. I said 'we can do our best to minimise it, but it's unavoidable'

Beachcomber Melissa Farley is not without her critics it seems. Unsurprisingly I guess. No point in going into it though.

Got it, thanks.

I apologise if you thought my reference to Prohibition and War on Drugs was comparing women with things. It wasn't.

It was pointing out how ineffective legislation is in very many "moral" cases.

and Beachcomber where exactly did I posit that laws, such as the Swedish ones 'probably' wouldn't affect attitudes at societal level - I suggested that the way the law was explained here ignored the fact that many of those prostitutes - at least in the UK - are men.

SabrinaMulhollandJones
Who would you say 'damaging to women in business' is damaging to then, onemorechap? It'd be women.
Who said that, and where? I've just searched across 833 posts and the only place that is referenced is in your post.

Yes, yes, nappies. But it was even more unavoidable before the equal opportunities, anti discrimination etc legislation.

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OneMoreChap Wed 12-Sep-12 14:39:08

SabrinaMulhollandJones Wed 12-Sep-12 14:24:33
A law prohibiting the buying of sex will go a long way to changing attitudes

Might.
Probably won't.

The Volstead Act didn't help a lot with alcohol, and - to me anyway - it looks like the "War on Drugs" has been lost.

Thanks, Beachcomber I think I see what you mean.

I meant "Like Prohibition, and the War on Drugs, criminalisation for prostitution will be ineffective, and just add even more power to organised crime."

avaboosmummy,hello.I posted upthread but not directly to you.
If you dont mind me asking,from what I can see,it seems you do what you do to get yourself out of the situation you found yourself in after your xp.
I presume you now earn a lot of money.
Do you think you are going to find it difficult to give up that level of income,once you get yourself back on a better financial track?

Xenia,I am wondering whether your DH made you work in return for you getting sex,and that is why you dont like housewives who get things for free.

Maybe that is the answer-she never answered my question of yesterday.

Sabrina,
I wasn't saying that maternity rights were bad, OMC cleared up what I meant!
I think how equal men and women are in the workplace depends on who you work for and in which sector.
I'd also go so far to say that for some women, me included the glory of a high pressure decent earning job just doesn't hold the same appeal when children come along. I can't help but think that it is within these kinds of companies discrimination against women n the workplace is alive and kicking.
I had to keep my pregnancy secret for as long as possible, not easy when you get severe morning sickness from the start.
A woman I worked with told me that while she hadn't been directly discriminated against while she was pregnant, did get left out of things the rest of her team were included in.
I believe that the desire to find something that fits around the kids, then leaves women like me in a position where we are scrabbling for call centre/supermarket jobs etc, and of course these are at the end of the pay scale usually with not great hours and temporary contracts.

I am a feminist weaned on Greer and Friedan etc. Of course I work. Any self respecting woman does. Although I suppose given how expensive it was to pay my husband off one could characterise that (as some men do when divorcing their wives after short periods) as £xxx per each sex session I suppose,,,, laughing as I type.

In fact it would certainly have been cheaper to hire it in given he got nearly £1m. There were no service warranties or quality standards in any sex contract either.... laughing.

I don't choose to ignore women who don't agree with me, I'm just disagreeing with you. You think that a woman's individual decision to sell sex overrides all other considerations- I don't.

As I said previously, as the only current escort contributing to the thread, I hope to put across the thoughts of women like me that make a conscious choice.
And you think your right to feminist ideals mean that women like me don't have to be heard.
Given the scenario described about the bus conversation I can assure you that as a former recruitment consultant, male candidates were somewhat preferred over female ones, by both recruitment consultants and prospective employers.
I do not see how this attitude prevails from inequality form women selling sex. I do not believe that the UK financial service companies who I recruited for based their preference on prostitution.
Isn't it glaringly obvious that somewhere along the line, there is a perceived threat due to the fact that a woman can bear a child? And this it what perhaps lead to workplace inequality.

I wonder where people like you get off from insinuating that all the worlds ills are down to the actions of one set of people.
I thought about this a great deal earlier and came to conclude that the one person who decided to pursue his ideals and blame all issue on one set of people was responsible for the deaths of millions.

I do not see why you would be happy to see 1000's of women an children across the globe face immediate poverty just because of your ideals.
Non of your arguments so far show any compassion for women who end up working, you would rather stick your head in sand and cling onto your ideals.
Did you find Mein Kampf inspiring? Because I'm really struggling to see how you can be so short sighted.

Ava "As I said previously, as the only current escort contributing to the thread, I hope to put across the thoughts of women like me that make a conscious choice."

Ava "I believe that the desire to find something that fits around the kids, then leaves women like me in a position where we are scrabbling for call centre/supermarket jobs etc, and of course these are at the end of the pay scale usually with not great hours and temporary contracts."

These 2 statements are totally contradictory. It is either a free choice, or your choices are limited due to the set up of our patriarchal society. And if you subscribe to the second statement then these limits are there because you are a woman and single parent, not for any other reason. So it is not a free choice.

amillionyears

I'll try to answer this as honest as I can be. I;ll give you a bit of background too.
I have chosen this line of work to ease the stress and pressure of my immediate situation.
January 2011, I'm one half of a smug couple, I always knew what we had was good, but I don't think the other half did, always wanting what the next person had.
I had just resigned from my part time job and was going to set up a little cafe/sandwich shop, and we figured we could get by on just one wage. We had 2 properties between us, nothing special both mortgaged but seen as a future investment plan. Some debts, but as our car was paid off, quite a low amount for a couple with a little bit of asset.
First week in Jan, ex come home, tells me he's been suspended, I smell a rat, he trys to cover up.
Anyway cut a long story short he was sacked for gross misconduct, his entire career down the pan will never get a job in that field again.
I felt that I'd chosen my babies over my career but as this was mutually agreed I had no reason to think anything like this would happen.
So all the security I had was just gone, ripped away from me, my world collapsed, I felt everything we had built together as a couple was now gone, all futile, 8 years of my life wasted.
And then of course I had two beautiful children, my youngest only 7 months old at the time.
I couldn't think, didn't kniw what to do, so angry so hurt, numb.
I sought advice from the docter, but I quickly realised poppong pills wasn't going to recrify the mess. I spoke to solicitors as to my liability on debts he ran up without me knowing, of course I was liable for the joint acc and they can and do pursue me for this.
No amount of begging the bank, and I even forwarned them that the shit was going to hit the proverbial. Nothing they could do, they didn't want to help me.

Luckily my house is just in my name and I have sole responsibility for it, however my oven broke followed closely by the boiler, would the dwp help me?
No not a chance, so I jsut figurd I have to get out of this on my own, no one will help me, and perhaps a part of me felt why should they there are millions like me who go through crap all the time.
Deciding to become an escort did appear like the logical decision to make and surprisingly it left me feeling a lot more empowered than going begging cap in hand to the bank and DWP.
I don't earn that much, contrary to wht some believe the pro world is also feeling the effects of the recession, as you can read all about on the escort forum.
My main aims in the short term is to finish my house,I just got a bathroom lights done last week, yippee! It may seem like a small victory but at one time I could just see mine and my childrens home crumbling around me.
I amd tied by my children as to when I can work, plus I wouldn't want to see loads of men, ideally earning £200 - £300 a week is perfect for me. I'm not motivated by money in that respect, but I want my children to have a nice home.
In time I hope to pass my driving test, yes I know, but it was one of those things I sacrificed doing 'for the greater good' when I was with my ex.
So I hope to acheive a level of stability in my day to day life, undertake some further study.
I've always had ambition and a plan up until all this and it made me realise that it is hard to think big when you can't afford to run your central heating.
Sorry for the long post!

No, it shouldnt

I am an escort/prostitute aged 22 and have been since I was 18. I chose this work because it pays extremely well, and I only have to see 3 clients a week which I do so from the comfort of my own home. It gives me time to study, look after my pets and see family and friends when I like, I had plenty of sex when I was younger and fancied getting paid for it. I dont have a drug problem or any other issues, and the men I see are very very normal. I advertise myself on the adultwork website and communicate and vet clients through there. I have never had a violent or similar experience whilst working, my clients are very appreciative and complimentary to me and if they wernt and were disrespectful I would ask them to leave. This forum is choca with fabrications and extremes of this industry and that damages normal girls like me who chose to do this work.

I have worked in 2 very well ran massage parlours, where I worked for about a year and met many different people and girls. Among them were girls who had a separate civilian job and did this for extra money, I never met anyone with drug problems, just normal girls who had chosen this to make a living. One woman in her 30s had a high end bank job and quit to escort as she was making the same money, worked less hours and in her words she 'liked men'. I DO enjoy sex with my clients and yes I have had many orgasms during meets. I wont lie, sometimes you dont click with a client, but then it doesnt bother you, you just fuck him how he likes it (providing its in the realms of what you offer, which with me is a pretty vanilla service, for eg kissing, oral and sex) and send him on his way. If I found the guy unfriendly to be around or sexually we didnt click, i just would not see him again.

The men that see me vary massively from all classes, ages and situations. They are very much normal men who for whatever reason arnt getting the sex and intimacy that they feel they need. Among my clients have been several local men, one of which is a friend from schools dad! Hes a very nice man who owns a business in my town and sees me regularly. I also get young very good looking guys sometimes, most who are in relationships are married in early 30s late 20s.

I'd love to explain to some who are misinformed what this job is actually like, and the kind of girls who do it. We are not, under any circumstances all trafficked, drugged or forced. Ive never met a girl, out of the 100 plus I've worked with that wasnt there of her own accord. This includes many foreign women, mostly from russia and eastern europe who do this job because it earns them a lot of money they can take home with them, some are also studying over here and do it to pay for that. Please do not think that in this industry foreign means trafficked, it definately does not.

Im your average girl from a lower middle class family, slim and goodlooking and normal and I do this job because I like it, because Im pretty lazy and like my free time and because it pays very well. I also get to spend horny time with men which is a bonus. I only work when I want to and not because I HAVE to. I have to admit though I will get flamed that attached men turn me on especially. Im not sure why, as I'd never have an affair with a married man. I have a guy who is in his early 30s, gorgeous looking, married and has his wife on her wedding day and their young DS tattoed on his back, this guy visits quite often, lives in the next town and his reasons are 'he wishes he didnt, but just cant help himself'

I dont know why I wrote all this, just wanted to let yall know that our clients are NOT monsters and are very likely to be the DHs, DS, fathers and grandads of various mumsnetters. Please do not judge us all :)

Gosh Ava, I do believe you have just 'lost' the debate*

How dare you compare women who are genuinely concerned about the welfare of other more vulnerable women (and yes I get that you're not one, whoop-de-doo) with that man.

*I know Godwin is not generally done on MN, but really!

You solved your problem Ava and that is great. You were in a vulnerable position and chose to solve it with the options available to you. The whole entire point is that your choices, for you at that time, were limited. And that is why it cannot be considered a free choice. And that is not a criticism of you. It is a criticism of the way women are treated in society.

i have to add i also offer webcam and sell photos and vids which gets me around an extra 200 to 300 a week, depending on how busy the site is and how long I spend on cam which is usually about 4 hours a week

it is a good living :)