Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

getmorenappies, I have been looking at one of your Guardian articles.

I had to stop reading when I got to this bit because it made me sick;

"Nadia, who has been a sex worker since she was 14"

WTAF??

Since when is a 14 year old prostituted girl a 'sex worker'??

Prostitution and the Commercial Value of Youth

Thanks for your reply avaboosmummy.

summerflower,
I'm all for female equality.
Part of being an adult is to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you.
It perhaps comes across that just because you don't like the idea of prostitution any female who disagrees hasn't got a valid right too.
Again I reiterate it's not just males who appear prejudiced towards sex workers.

I would argue that legislation does change attitudes- it takes a while- but attitudes do change. There are a few dinosaurs around that dont view female workers as competant as men, but as the younger generations come in, they become fewer and fewer. The alternative is no laws against anything, because someone will always break them. That doesn't sound like a terribly attractive option.

Like I said, I can't separate buying a womans body as being socially and legally acceptable from people profiteering from women's bodies, as commodities, and so abusing and trafficking young women. A law prohibiting the buying of sex will go a long way to changing attitudes- not for everyone, but for enough to make a difference. Without a demand, you won't get traffickers meeting the supply.

The more socially acceptable and normalised the buying of sex becomes, the more the demand will be.

So how come any time maternity rights, better pay longer leave, are discussed do the CBI trot out the same old diatribe about how it will harm women's position in business if we improve said rights ?
How does it follow that the younger generation will just accept that women are as competant when I expect the largest number of SAHP to be female?

Again it appears that because you can't seperate it doesn't mean that the rest of us think the same.
Why not let the women profit if that's what they want to do.
Again you choose to ignore those women who do not hold the same views as you. Which in my eyes puts you on a par with men who sterotype about women.

SabrinaMulhollandJones Wed 12-Sep-12 14:24:33
A law prohibiting the buying of sex will go a long way to changing attitudes

Might.
Probably won't.

The Volstead Act didn't help a lot with alcohol, and - to me anyway - it looks like the "War on Drugs" has been lost.

You think maternity rights are damaging to women? When I was pregnant an older family member took great pleasure in telling me how lucky I was, because when shd had her babies there was no maternity rights - you just left your job when had children.

How can you possibly argue that women are not more equal in the workplace than a couple of generations ago? Sure it's not perfect, nothing is. There is a way still to go. But the inroads made into equality in the workla d have been huge since the 60's.

I don't choose to ignore women who don't agree with me, I'm just disagreeing with you. You think that a woman's individual decision to sell sex overrides all other considerations- I don't.

*workplace

SabrinaMulhollandJones Wed 12-Sep-12 14:44:10
You think maternity rights are damaging to women?

I think she said
avaboosmummy Wed 12-Sep-12 14:35:09
So how come any time maternity rights, better pay longer leave, are discussed do the CBI trot out the same old diatribe about how it will harm women's position in business if we improve said rights ?

I was on a train last month and three women sat down next to me.

The conversation went like this..

Woman 1 : oh yes, Clare said she's got so many women on maternity leave atm she's struggling to hold it together even with replacements.

Woman 2 and 3 : Oh, what's she going to do.

Woman 1 : oh she said she's not going to hire any women again.

I couldn't quite believe what I was listening to. And all three women, mid 20's, seemingly well educated, were quite accepting of 'Clare's' reasoning. I was expecting at least one of them to be 'WTF ?!' , but they all just sat there nodding.

I'm not sure what that adds to the discussion but I've been itching to share that story as I was so

OneMoreChap.

Women are people, humans - they are not inanimate products such as a bottle of gin or a gram of coke. Many people have this thing called empathy that they are able to apply to other humans, once they understand their plight.

HTH.

@Beachcomber The majority of these women wish to leave prostitution.

Do you know the majority of prostitutes personally, or do you have a source for that?

@getmorenappies

In the UK women get 9 months maternity leave, men get 2 weeks. Why not campaign to make it equal or at least close the gap a bit?

Beachcomber sorry, your last went right over my head. Where did I suggest women aren't people?

I may have pointed out all prostitutes are not women, but you appear to be reading something I didn't say. May I have a cite?

@Onemorechap it looks like the "War on Drugs" has been lost.

I agree. If you look at Colombia and all the violence and deaths it appears all the violence isn't coming from the usage of drugs but rather the fight to try and enforce the anti-drug laws (which I find a bit ironic). I remember reading Colombia (or was it Mexico?) actually brought in the armed forces to fight the drug cartels. The result? Thousands of people on both sides have been killed and the drugs trade is still thriving. It seems the harder you try to enforce the ban the more people get hurt.

Compare that to the situation in Portugal. Over 10 years ago Portugal legalized all drugs and hasn't sent a single person to prison for drug use/possession/dealing. The result? Drug use has plunged and crime has dropped.

Here's a source but you can find plenty more on the topic with a quick Google search:
www.thefix.com/content/decrim-nation-portugal-ten-years-later

My point? Making something illegal might sound like the best thing to do but in reality it may not be.

Of course, many of the prostitution racketeers are drugs traders and tobacco smugglers.

Legalisation, and harmonisation of duties would put a crimp in their operations.

Consuelaa

it's Mexico I believe. Over 47,000 deaths since 2006 directly related to the crackdown on drug traffickers.

I agree with the legalization of drugs. It could remove all the organized criminals and their massive revenue stream from the equation in one swoop.

Consuelaa, of course I don't know the majority of prostitutes personally .

Figures vary from research paper to research paper but average out at around 90% of questioned women wish to leave prostitution.

When prostituted women are asked, consistently around 90% say they want out of prostitution immediately, but the decision is out of their hands and in the hands of their pimps, their husbands, their landlords, their addictions, their children's bellies. A study of women in street prostitution in Toronto found that about 90% wanted to escape but could not and a 5-country study found that 92% of women, men and transgendered people in prostitution wanted immediate help to escape prostitution.

Beachcomber That article has absolutely no reference to any study that says 90% of prostitutes say they want to leave. It just links to another website that says the same thing with absolutely no reference to back it up.

It pure conjecture with a 30 point red 'FACT' written next to it.

Onemorechap- I would 'damage to women on business' is on a par to 'damaging to women' wouldn't you?

I would expect that beach was saying profiteering prostituted women was not the same as profiteering from drugs and alchohol. But it's interesting that you do see profiteering from human beings as comparable- human beings are made into the commodity in the case of trafficked/prostituted women,

Getmorenappies that sure is a depressing conversation to overhear- I call it the Katie hodgkins effect (who is obviously a Xenia wannabe).

What would you suggest? That things would be more equal without anti-discrimination laws?!

Beach did explain upthread that she works at a drop in centre for prostitutes - so I'd think her experience is valuable.

There are mixed views and restricting a man or woman from paying for sex is not likely to happen and in my view would limit the rights of women, not improve them.

getmorenappies, it is an article written by Melissa Farley who is considered to be one of the most experienced and knowledgeable researchers in the field. Farley has spent her career researching prostitution - the factsheet linked to summarizes many of her findings.

If you want to find out more or read the original sources, I can suggest Farley's website plus that of Donna Hughes.

You might find this of interest too.

As per usual this discussion seems to be revolving around the women in prostitution rather than the men who abuse and exploit them .

I don't know Sabrina. I really don't. But I certainly do think there should be anti-anti-discrimination laws.

Ultimately I think we do live in an unfair world, we can do our best to minimise it, but it's unavoidable. Nature has no concept of fairness and we are all subject to the great lottery of where you are born. Hampstead or Somalia.

I think the abuse of power is responsible for many of our ills.