Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

You looked at a subforum where escorts post about customers to avoid so of course it is going to be all bad. There is that as well as feedback.

mcmooncup

the vitriol you post assumes that all paid for sex is somehow damaging to the person supplying yet so must we assume that all other non paid sex never damages anyone?

Maybe we should ban all sex unless in a loving relationship?

I just think its horses for courses, one (wo)mans poison another (wo)man's pleasure, et al.

Some people like being whipped spanked, tied up, verbally abused, urinated on perhaps ban this to as some would argue it's mentally damaging, despite them being a willing participant.

I agree some women are not willing but surely that is the matter to be addressed rather than assuming all escorts have some kind of mental impairment that prevents them making informed decisions.

Rape is an under reported crime in general, ask yourself why this is

You have spectacularly missed the point and extrapolating to the point of ludicrousness.

But I am genuinely pleased you are happy.

avaboosmummy you said you were a worker- in your opinion do you think having a way of leaving feedback is a useful way in helping to avoid undesirable customers or do you think it is just there for customers to "keep the prostitutes in line and behaving as they want them to."?

Again, not that anyone will take this on board, but for myself and various other independent escorts I know, no - one is keeping us in line.

Runninginheels,
why can you not accept that this is the case, yes before you say it, some don't do it through choice, plenty of others do.
If you refuse to acknowledge this then this argument is about your ideals and you obviously do not feel any of us make informed choices, thus implying all pro's are somehow mentally inferior to you.

mcmooncup
You have spectacularly missed the point and extrapolating to the point of ludicrousness.

But I am genuinely pleased you are happy.

WTF, are you hoping if you patronise me just enough I'll break down and tell you just how terrible it really is?

Oh I'm not saying any are morally inferior toe, except the men who think they are entitled to women's bodies for cash.

Why do you think rape is an under reported crime? Is it perhaps that men feel they're entitled to women's bodies? And entitled to have sex just because they want to?

But it is you who keeps mentioning being mentally inferior, no-one else has said that. And then you are diminishing and minimising bad experiences of prostitution.................

You may feel happy with your choice now. You may not in 2 years time. Who knows? We all do what we do.......with the information we have, but there is overwhelming and compelling evidence that women trafficking and many forms of prostitution are very harmful and dangerous to women. But as has been stated many many times, not all people at all times think that. For some women it does temporarily get them out of bad situations.......and no-one here is judging women for that - it more a statement about the state of women's rights in society, not individual women. But I do feel it wrong of you to constantly be speaking as though I/others are criticising you......that misses the point. Informed choice is a luxury most women are not afforded cos that's the way shit is, so it is not a criticism on you as an individual.

Ava - you have been quite clear that you don't think it is terrible, as I have said many times, that is great. I genuinely mean that. It wasn't meant to be patronising. I was going to write about protesting too much here......but I think that may not help

Why do you think rape is an under reported crime? Is it perhaps that men feel they're entitled to women's bodies? And entitled to have sex just because they want to?

No i don't think that is the reason why rape is underreported. I actually think that sounds like a load of nonsensical crap. Its maybe one of the reasons why rape occurs though.

I would have thought that the reason rape is underreported is because it is notoriously difficult to prove and get a guilty verdict, and faced with the perpertrator getting found not guilty (be that due to lack of evidence etc) makes an already harrowing course of action (going to court and testifying) even more harrowing, to the point where not reporting it actually seems like the preferred option.

Consuelaa

The feedback issue, in relationship to AW yes feedback can be useful to both parties, the majority of escorts I know will not see anyone with any negative feedback.
However feedback can only be left for bookings made through the site, so ther isn't an option to leave it if you don't work like this.
There is the reverse scenario where an escort with good feedback will get more interest that someone without so i business terms it's a good thing.
However a there are ways to cheat the fb system, ie by creating fake profiles etc, so it can be open to abuse by both sides.
I know probably no one on this post will give a damn about the fact that this industry is known to scam punters, but I guess they deserve to be robbed and blackmailed right?
I feel forum's like Saafe are invaluable to working girl's, and the warnings and wasters section is good for doing just that.
I don't think it's about keeping anyone in check, Saafe provides information on safe working practices for women rather than condemning then, every escort/hooker/working girl/whore/prostitute should know about it's existence.

Do you think we should also ban marriage based on the fact that marriage also can be harmful to huge numbers of woman.

Oh I'm not saying any are morally inferior toe, except the men who think they are entitled to women's bodies for cash.

And if the woman is willing to sell it of her own free will the problem is?

ava - what you are saying is that your job is very dangerous. I hate that for a start about sex work.

Titty,yeeeeees along with chocolate, wine and cars

And then you are diminishing and minimising bad experiences of prostitution.................How?

it's more a statement about the state of women's rights in society, not individual women.

Perhaps it starts to come across as though criminalising prostitution will somehow make everything all right, as I said before I believe it's fair too simplistic to blame it on one factor

Consuela- much rape and prostitution is driven by men feeling entitled to sex. How dare you put the blame on the victims like that? they don't report because they fear they won't be believed. Because somehow they felt they were in a situation they couldn't get out of- take a look at the mn I Believe You campaign. A survey of rape victims showed a prevailing factor in their non-reporting was they wouldn't be believed.

Many people believe that rape isnt rape in certain circumstances - George fucking Galloway for example. That's the reason. I've no wish to turn this into a discussion about rape, bit your comments represent just what women are up against.

Sorry, my post was to titty not consuela.

Of course there is an element of danger, as you are dealing in 1 - 2 - 1 situations the someone you don't know.
Sometimes i even go out by myself when it's dark at night

How does criminalising it take away the danger? maybe allowing 2 women to work together may help and many escorts would like this to be the case.

My mum, as part of her job, regularly ends up covered in bodily fluids, verbally abused, physically attacked all for less than £20 an hour. She's a dementia nurse.

"Of course there is an element of danger, as you are dealing in 1 - 2 - 1 situations the someone you don't know.
Sometimes i even go out by myself when it's dark at night"

But there is more than an element of danger, you are statistically the most abused group of women on earth. And you have no real protection. It is a secret world where the women have few rights.

If you did go out at night and were raped, it would not be your fault. It would be the rapists fault for raping you.

Your mum is protected in her work, and you know it. I get why you use the comparison however I think you are minimising your own risk deliberately. You are at more risk than a dementia nurse and we all know that so let's not pretend.

Avababy, criminalising the punters gets to the root of the demand for paid sex. It says that no, it's not all right to treat women as sex objects, as commodities. Because it's not.

runningforthebusinheels

I'm starting to think you have issues with men. Your post assumes that the majority of men do/will pay for sex so tell them all that that they can't it's wrong, equality for all women. Simple.

Running i never said the victims were to blame so dont make shit up or twist my words. I actually said that rape occurs because some men feel they are entitled to sex. Yip i definitely said that.

Fear of not being believed is not the same thing as thinking that a man was entitled to rape you. I cant actually believe you would try and equate that. I have never met anyone who having been through this thought that it was the mans right to rape them. Yes they thought they might not be believed, and like i said the thought of going to the police, having to describe what happened, then (if they are lucky enough ) through the court process and the high liklihood of the rapist of getting found not proven/not guilty/innocent (where i live its something like 3% of rapist are caught and found guilty and sent to jail) is what put people off reporting ime.

Avababy, no it's very well documented on mm that I have a husband and 2 sons- I don't have an issue with 'men' but I do have an issue within who feel they're entitled to sex.

But I'm well versed with the 'oh you have a problem with men' argument on MN - but no.

But there is more than an element of danger, you are statistically the most abused group of women on earth. And you have no real protection. It is a secret world where the women have few rights.
If you did go out at night and were raped, it would not be your fault. It would be the rapists fault for raping you.

And why do you think simply criminalising it means an end to prostitution and an end to all of the above. I just don't think it's that simple.
If I was raped doing my job it wouldn't be my fault either. You are talking to an adult here you do realise?

Your mum is protected in her work, and you know it. I get why you use the comparison however I think you are minimising your own risk deliberately. You are at more risk than a dementia nurse and we all know that so let's not
pretend.

Once again there you go assuming all is rosy in the legal world. I'm not minimising the risk, I understand the risks, I take responsibility for the consequences.
My mother works on a ward that is often critically understaffed, at times without a male worker on a ward with more than one potentailly violent patient.

Please stop talking to me, your condescending tone is really upsetting me.