Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

Quite Running, I'd never heard of a feminist who didn't respect SAHMs, until Xenia. Personally I think it's pretty unfeminist to dismiss the tremendous and valuable work that women do in supporting and caring for the rest of humankind.

@mcmooncup, the rating/feedback on escort booking websites isn't just about customers rating the escorts' talent- the escorts can also leave feedback for the customers. And if a customer was abusive or disrespectful or violent the escort can say this in his feedback. Next time the customer tries to make a booking with another escort she will see what the first escort wrote and may refuse to take a booking from him.

So the feedback system is useful in helping sex workers/escorts avoid undesirable customers and keeping themselves safe.

"and sucking their filthy nobs."

If a customer has poor hygiene the sex worker can demand he goes take a shower, and if he refuses to shower the worker can refuse to touch him or even leave (and say why on his feedback to let other workers know).

"If she's being paid for childminding, she's being paid for sex."

WTAF? Why? A housewife isn't obliged to sleep with her husband. That law changed years ago. The current thinking (I hope) is that sex is something you do because you WANT to, not because it's a "housewifely service" you have to provide.

And yes, of course they're dividing the labour and money. My point was to Xenia that the SAHM is contributing to the smooth functioning of the family unit as the working father.

Consuelaa, you're talking about AW, not PN.

(Just before someone points out that there's no feedback from escorts on PN.)

Abusive men should be arrested not posted on a website. Shows an absolute level of acceptance - i.e. that 'hookers' are not entitled to actually call the police if someone is abusive......after all it's just part of the job

Does anyone actually describe themselves as a housewife these days? I never have, even when not in paid employment.

ava What's more I don't see anyone trying to ban call centre's down to the fact that the majority of people working their aren't happy.

Call centres are very regulated work places. And YES you could sue a company if they put you under undue stress.

But that does not mean that I support legalising prostitution, I absolutely don't. I think the process a woman has to go through to be able to normalise it is psychologically harmful in the majority of cases, as the research on call centre workers illustrates to a very minor level in comparison to what many prostituted women normalise. I don't think anyone should work under those conditions.

I'm sorry Ava, I know you don't like being told what you feel, but please note I have not said YOU, I have said, many prostituted women. And that is the experience I have of dealing with women who have been prostituted, and is well documented in many many places.

On the "wow isn't cuntersnet brilliant for posting details of violent men".......can you not see how ridiculous that statement is.

If a man walked into a shop and was violent to the female shop assistant because she didn't make his sandwich right, would you post it on a fucking website or call the police???

mrs Lollygag describes herself as a housewife but then again she describes herself as a size 10 and that's a complete joke!

*messyisthenewtidy Tue 11-Sep-12 20:32:57^
WTAF? Why? A housewife isn't obliged to sleep with her husband. That law changed years ago.

Sigh.

Yes, and nor are women in relationships paid for childminding, unless things have drastically deteriorated.

I 'd at your she is working, for him, doing his housework and looking after his children. He's paying her

So, by that reasoning, presumably when he looks after her kids she should refund some money?

If she's being paid for the relationship, chop it as you like, she's being paid for what goes on in that relationship. No, she doesn't have to have sex with him, but nor does she have to do the housework...

I'm - perhaps poorly - suggesting that your analogy isn't helpful.

The fact is that an awful lot of prostitutes feel they have no redress in law if a 'client' is abusive. Or if they are raped without a condom, or made to do something they don't want to. They have no grievance procedures, which by law are are available in other jobs.

I agree with mcmooncup, legalisation isn't the answer. Legalisation just legitimises the use of women as commodities. Legalisation adds a veneer of 'normalcy' to all these men wanting to pay young women for sex.

Sigh back at you OneMoreChap! Maybe the analogy re. paying wasn't helpful but when I agreed with you re. the idea that a husband and wife are dividing the labour and money I think you should have understood what I was getting at.

I think the difference between you and I is that when we are talking about the tasks that are put in the family pot and then divvied up, you are also putting sex whereas I am not, because I think it's harmful for ANYONE to have sex if they don't want to.

Doing the hoovering when you don't feel like it isn't on a par with having sex when you don't feel like it, because the whole point of sex is to enjoy it. You do the housework not because you enjoy it (g4u if you do) but because you need to have a tidy house. Sex is not like that. The whole point of sex is sex itself. Because it's supposed to be pleasurable, not a chore.

@mooncup"that 'hookers' are not entitled to actually call the police if someone is abusive"

I never used the term "hookers" and I didn't say or imply sex workers couldn't make a police report if the customer's behaviour amounted to a criminal offence (for example abusive or threatening behaviour, assault, rape, stalking etc). The worker could make a police report as well as leave negative feedback.

But the feedback system is also there for undesirable acts from customers which aren't criminal. For example not washing isn't a crime and being disrespectful isn't a crime, in these cases a police report may not be necessary but the worker may still leave negative feedback for the customer for other escorts to see.

Consuelaa, this is a genuine question because I don't actually know.

In reality do sex workers report violent / aggressive clients and do the police follow it up?

I actually do think it's harmful, mentally and physically, to have sex with a stranger when you don't want to. Different from within the context of a loving (not abusive) relationship.

I looked at some of the negative feedback. It was more robbery, assault, attempted rape being posted there..........not someone's stinking armpits

In your previous post Consuelaa you said:
"And if a customer was abusive or disrespectful or violent the escort can say this in his feedback. Next time the customer tries to make a booking with another escort she will see what the first escort wrote and may refuse to take a booking from him."

Please don't minimise. Refuse to take a booking?? FFS.

What happens to a prostitute who gets a bad punternet review? I net she's out of a job the next day if she's with an agency :(

@messyisthenewtidy, I don't know about all of them but some do.

example:

www.punternet.com/forum/index.php/topic/16987-dangerous-punter-in-custody-in-liverpool/

quote:
"A day later-the same man raped and robbed and held another Escort against her will in another area. The escort reported the robbery to the police & eventually-reported the rape too.

The man is in police custody and will not be free for the foreseeable future but we are convinced that this will not be the first time he has done this."

I don't know if there are sex workers who don't make police reports out of fear they wouldn't be taken seriously or be in trouble themselves because of their job. I hope this isn't the case.

Exactly running. It's the perfect way to keep the 'girls' on their toes. No moaning (of the wrong kind), all out enthusiasm at all times, and gets the competition going between the 'girls' (divide and conquer).

S.I.C.K and very sinister.

Please don't minimise. Refuse to take a booking??

Yes some escorts will decline a booking or ignore a customer who contacts her if he has poor (or zero) feedback. Or for any reason she wants.

I looked at some of the negative feedback. It was more robbery, assault, attempted rape being posted there

Did you really?

Consuela, there are certainly prostitutes who are scared to go to the police, also documented on the saafe site.

A girl who was robbed didn't think police would take her complaint seriously, so just posted it. She thought shed get into more trouble if she went to the police.

You are suggesting that cuntersnet is some sort of protection against violence towards sex workers. That is simply ludicrous. Prostituted women are at more risk of violence than any other group of women ever studied. That's what I mean about minimising it........"oh she's got the choice to not book him after maybe by chance seeing something on cuntersnet". Seriously, get a grip.

And yes I did really.

And yes I did really.

Was it my previous link I posted you looked at? That isn't the feedback system I was talking about.

I actually went on cuntersnet and looked at the dangerous punter posts. Why does this matter?

The fact that punters actually believe that punternet and the like actually affords prostitute some protection is laughable. It is just another tool for the punters to keep the prostitutes in line. Behaving ad they want them to.