Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

Xenia justifies everything she does.
She starts off from the position that everything she does and has ever done is right.
Hence her ability to rarely say sorry and have no guilt. Because Xenia can never be wrong.

Xenia, divorce courts now recognise the value if a sahp, in that they often enable a partner (of either sex) to to the high flying Jon he does while maintaining a good family life for the children.

Exotic said earlier that if she dropped dead, her dh wod have to find a nanny, housekeeper etc. So it's not a case of a housewife prostituting herself- it's a case of 2 people contributing to family life.

4 in 5 earn less than their men. They marry up. There is masses and masses of research on it. It is why when babies come the lower earner pin money person is very often female so she gives up work. Obviously many more now earn more than their husbands or a lot more.

I was not suggesting women keep to the bargain. Plenty marry the richer man relative to them and then they do not perform their side of the bargain - they get fat and give up sex which is why marriages can break up those that are based on that economic kind of bargain rather than two equal careers.

Sorry, that's high flying job

Hi Xenia

Does your 4 out of 5 apply to couples just before their first child is born? Or is that general across all age groups including those where, say, the woman is working part time after children and the man full time, or those of my parents' age where it was the norm in the Civil Service for the woman to stop working after children. Or of my grandparents' age, where my grandma legally had to leave work on marriage, so of course her pension (income) is less than my grandad's?

How stark is the average difference at the specific "life point" I mentioned? Because that will be the key financial driver (not discounting other emotional or societal drivers, but your focus was on the earning capacity.)

Off to gym now, look forward to thread on my return.

I've a friend who earns around £200-300 ph. They work around 6 hours a week, spend lots of time with their young child ( single parent ), have a nice lifestyle and a healthy bank balance. They're not a sex worker just to be clear.

it's a lifestyle that would be enviable for a lot of single parents. I certainly wouldn't mind it but I don't have those skills. I work a 40 hour week, I'd happilly exchange it for 6 and the same wage. A couple of posters have mentioned this as a benefit to their jobs. It often comes up in lapdancing threads.

I can't see anything wrong with someone like Ava descretely being in contact with someone like Interested and agreeing a transaction that involves sex for large sums of money. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else and leaves them both content with the end result.

I assume if interested is hiring escorts for 10 hours at a time he's paying in thousands of pounds. Cash.As such I doubt he's got yellow teeth and bad personal hygene, or that Ava sees herself or is treated as so crudely put ' a collection of orifaces'.

If, being extreme for a second, someone offered me a billion pounds for sex I wouldn't have to think about it for long. Hell I'd probably sell a kidney for that !

Offered £1000 I wouldn't , £500000 I'd certainly think about it.

I think most people would take the billion pounds. The point being that at some point the possible negative effects are out weighed by the financial reward and all that offers. It's just a question of where any individual draws that line. And it's certainly no ones business to judge another on where they put that line.

And I know this is a moot point in these threads.

We as a society frequently ask others to do jobs on our behalf and to our direct benifit that can leave them traumatised. Police, fireservice, army. Ironically they are not getting highly paid for their service to us

I'm not suggeting Escort services should be the 4th emergency service, the point just being that I don't think the negative effects of a profession are an argument againt it if it's known about beforehand and entered into with freewill.

I know a few ex deepsea divers. Highly paid. You can only do that job for a number of years before it wreaks your body. Some of the stories they told me about their work were horrendous. But that's no reason to ban deepse diving.

A sex worker of free choice, in a first world country charging £100s or £1000s of pounds to support a decent lifestyle i don't really have a problem with that if it's their informed choice. And they would not of course not have that choice, however problematc, without a client.

The very many more sex workers around the world and through history that haven't enjoyed such benefit or choice or freewill ?

Well yes, I think we all fail them. I can well believe a high chance the average street prostitute in the UK has been abused, in the care system or on SS's radar for one reason or another. We've already let them down well before any nutjob gets involved with them on the street.

getmorenappies before I begin what a brilliant post

exoticfruits I didn't realise it was a requirement of membership on this board to respond to your posts within a time period. Unfortunately, my time is taken up spinning my web of deceit for my beautiful wife and two children and i am sure that I should spend more time responding to your questions on this board. I'll try my best to post back as soon as possible but hope you forgive me if I have dinner in between.

Er, surely the point is that police, deepsea divers, the army, etc have a proper legal job description and are so protected in a way that prostitutes aren't.

Interestedpunter, welcome back to the thread. Where does your wife think you are when you go on 10 hour jollies with prostitutes? And would you advise your daughter to join the glittering profession of prostitution? I'm not sure I'll get a truthful answer to that.,.

And I'm glad you're not suggesting that escorting is the fourth emergency service- because that would be ludicrous.

It's the wives I feel sorry for. Surely they have a right to know that their husbands are using prostitutes, and potentially exposing them to STDs.

Er, surely the point is that police, deepsea divers, the army, etc have a proper legal job description and are so protected in a way that prostitutes aren't.

Well my point was that one can't outlaw a profession purely based on it's negative aspect. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I was just picking up on an earlier post.

I'd agree with your point, prostitutes should have more legal protection.

Interestedpunter, I wonder why youthink getmorenappies post was so great? Is it because she is one of the minority who think what you are doing is ok? I think she has forgotten that you are actually married. Married to a woman you keep describing as beautiful, though not that beautiful as you are cheating on her with hookers. Long bookings that you feel no shame over. And not that beautiful as you said you are leaving when the kids grow up.

As for whether your wife knows. Well she must unless she is incredibly stupid. Doesn't she wonder why you are not bothered about sex anymore. I'm presuming you don't pester her now you have your other sex life.

I have no political argument against prostition and agree that a street worker is in desperate need of help where as a high end escort is worlds apart.

I too, as nappies stated, would probably have sex with a stranger for a huge(life changing) sum of money, not 150 quid though.

And I don't doubt that you are well presented and have good personal hygiene,probably well off if you pay out huge wads of cash for long bookings. Not that much of a catch though, or you wouldn't be paying and your wife would fancy the pants off you, not ban you from sex.

I wouldn't want you to miss your dinner interestedpunter!

I am generally left speechless by Xenia's views on women who prefer to have a few years off the career ladder-I never know whether to laugh or be utterly depressed. I think laugh has to win.

I think most people would take the billion pounds.

I am not for sale at any price! Certainly not for some man with more money than sense and doesn't know the value of it.

carmenelectra whatever makes you think that I am seeking or need your sympathy? Lets be honest about this, even if I was, you wouldn't give it to me if I paid to see a girl for 5 minutes or ten years.

I consider the relationship/marriage etc with my wife to have broken down and have made that clear to her when I told her that I was going to be unfaithful to her and that I was going to leave her when the children reached 18. I have also told her that I am only with her for the children. So, I have no problems and sleep soundly at night when I go off on "dates" (did you really say that? I thought I was "using their holes" and it was a totally unequal relationship between me and these vulnerable trodden on girls? Are the punters gaining some ground here? ). Yes, I do go away on "business" or other reasons. I never used to go away so often when our relationship was good (and for lots of other reasons) I suspect she suspects what I am doing but does not want to admit it to herself and, therefore, does not take the time to check. I tend to go for women between 26 and 35 and I am 41 (yes, yes; i shouldn't judge a woman on her age and should only pay them money based on their personality but i am a "scumbag"). Does that mean that I am going for girls who are "much younger" - leave it to you carmenelectra.

As to whether I am satisfying my "need"; well it depends what you think my need is. I think I have a need for excitement in my life as well as sex. I don't consider that either the excitement or the sex are there when I am at home. So far as I am concerned punting for longer periods of time with women who are funny, intelligent and witty satisfies both.

So far as my children are concerned; I don't know what they will think when i tell them and neither do you. I certainly will not be asking them for sympathy. Why do you keep assuming i want sympathy? They may well have the reaction I had when my Dad told me or the reaction you are describing; so what? I don't live my life for my parents, I wont expect my children to live their life for me and I will not want to live my life (once my children are grown up) for my children. The important thing so far as I am concerned is that I am honest with my children.

Now turning to your latest post; someone here said that the arguments for criminalising the purchase of sex is not based on morality and there have been no posts averring moral arguments; hey? Have you read carmenelectra's posts and all the others on here stating marriage should be x, there should be no infidelity in marriage, you are not be entitled to sex as a part of marriage, if you are in a sexless marriage you have three options etc etc etc.. If those aren't all moral arguments/ judgements; what are they? The point I am trying to make is that marriage, love, relationships etc are not so simple you can confine them to a set of rules. Before I got married to my wife it was all "interestedpunter if we get married I promise to always give you great sex"; so was I wrong to assume that she would stick to her word when we got married? OK so we probably got married for all the wrong reasons and perhaps I should have looked for the perfect relationships some of you claim to have on here. We are where we are and I've decided that for the next few years I am going to be living with my wife, trying to get on with her the best I can and not divorcing her. At the same time, I've been honest and upfront with my wife and I'm also going to enjoy myself punting. If you want to make a moral judgement call on that fine but don't pretend its something else.

And no carmenelectra I am no stud; even if I didn't have to pay for it I would (as in I prefer to pay for it then ever get emotionally attached to woman again) but yet again are you just trying to be emotive and get a rise out of me or do you actually have a point so far as your last sentence is concerned?

My sincere apologies exoticfruits but just as I finished my dinner and was about to post, carmenelectra decided to post again. Thought it would be easier to just respond to her in one post. I will start on responding to your question. At some point hopefully, I will get to bed so that I am bright eyed and chirpy tomorrow morning to go into work, earn lots more than my female contemporaries and use my wealth to stamp on poor innocent abused women by punting.

What reasons does your wife give for not wanting to "give you fantastic sex" any more?

I consider the relationship/marriage etc with my wife to have broken down and have made that clear to her when I told her that I was going to be unfaithful to her and that I was going to leave her when the children reached 18. I have also told her that I am only with her for the children.

Thats a lot of telling, Interested, does your wife not have an opinion or view on how your sexless, just for the children marriage should work?

No infidelity in marriage-a moral point about marriage, not prostitution.
No entiltement to sex within marriage-a moral point about marriage, not prostitution.
If you are in a sexless marriage, the three things you should do...a moral point about marriage, not prostitution.
The common denominater with these three moral points of view is marriage and not prostitution.

I am all for open marriages, when agreed between the two people within the marriage.
The problems come when one person is lying (morally that is) and there is no mutual knowledge OR consent for having an open marriage.

Anyway I do believe that this thread was about whether it should be illegal for people to pay for sex and I stand by my viewpoint, that as prostitution appeals chiefly to people, as a way of earning money, who have had their healthy pyschological boundaries eroded away during childhood, that yes, it should be illegal to pay for sex.

Let me start by saying that if my daughter was an alchoholic/ addicted to drugs/ have mental health issues or anything similar then I would certainly discourage her from becoming a WG simply to make money and would do my best to get her as much help possible. But as I have already said, I do my best never to punt with such women.

Other than that, I would ideally like to ask you first, exoticfruit, what your concern would be if your daughter wanted to make a choice to be a prostitute. Assume your daughter is a confident, bright, intelligent 20 something year old who is doing her masters degree, has never been raped or anything similar, struggling to fund herself through Uni and you learn she has advertised as a prostitute. What would be your concern with her choice:

Is it because it is a risky business; there is a danger that she may get raped/ catch STD's or even worse, STI's if she is not careful? - if that is the case then aren't there risks in other professions such as boxing, motor racing or some of the other ones getmorenappies described above?

Or is it because of the stigma attached to punting in that she will be labelled a "whore", people will not respect her etc..

I would like to think that I would discuss both of the above with her and try to discourage her as much as I could from pursuing that career (just as I would if she decided to become a boxer, deep sea diver etc). If I had the money i would offer to pay her Uni fees or if not I would advise her to put Uni off until she had the funds. That said, if she said "Dad, I want to do my degree now, don't want to get a job at/ for less than the minimum wage and i am going to be a prostitute" then I hope I would respect her decision (as much as i might not agree with it) and not judge her. I hope I would not be a hypocrite and blame the men who see her for what she has chosen to do.

Sorry guys. Off to bed and address any comments when and if I can (if you allow that exoticfruit ).

Women don't "give" sex, they have sex.

I think that you have a peculiar view of women, interestedpunter, with the remark ' I promise to always give you great sex' - it is a two way thing - you don't 'give it' ( unless you are one of Xenia's 'housewives' in the parallel universe).
My only surprise is that your wife stays in the marriage- unfortunately it again backs up Xenia's claims.
If my daughter were a confident, bright 20yr old at university she wouldn't be funding herself as a prostitute - she would have too much self respect. My concern would be that I had made such a rotten job of bringing her up that she could get in a position where she is bought for someone else's pleasure without them knowing anything about her. I would expect her to choose a partner who was a friend, on a similar wavelength and one who held women in respect.I would be expecting her to use her brain to get a job. There are student loans! We also add to it. I would give her a lesson in thrift!
Sadly, having laughed at Xenia, and her irrational hatred of housewives, your attitude backs her up and makes it seem possible that she has a point. My mother and grandmothers were strong women, therefore I would be amazed if a daughter of mine were to think making money out of a self centred man, with outdated attitudes, was an option- it wouldn't cross their mind.
I object to the term housewife- I have never put it on a form as I am not married to a house- I am lucky not to know the type of woman that Xenia describes, but clearly they are alive and kicking if the promise to always 'give' great sex is to be believed- she should have seen the writing on the wall from the start!
I would imagine that your DCs would see you as a sad, weak character who ought to have worked through your marriage problems or got out and faced life alone.

Interested, you have postulated what exotic's objections might be, namely the risks of rape, STIs and being called a whore. You have stated that you would try and discourage your daughter from prostitution but you haven't stated which of your postulated reasons would motivate this concern - or is it all of them?