Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

I don't expect my plumber to love fixing my leaks or my hairdresser to skip with joy at the prospect of a cut and blow dry. It is what it is.

But I do expect a sexual partner to be genuinely enthusiastic and joyful about having sex with me.

I'm not at all having a pop at women who sell sex, it's the attitude of men who buy it I cannot fathom.

I expect some women buy sex too.

Sex is a biological function and it is not a huge leap for me to see how it can be separated from intimacy. I won't want my partner to be forced into doing an act he does not want, but at the same time don't long term couples have sex even when one partner is not as enthusiastic about it as the other.

The prime example is having TTC sex (mechanical) or times where the woman is less keen on sex than the man due to sleep deprivation and bringing up a young child.

I assume a man having sex with a sex worker might have more than an inkling that she might be going through the motions, but tbh it is not a biggie for me if that man goes ahead anyway.

ohbella,you were doing quite a good job of convincing me then and giving a reasonable argument. Until you trotted out the old ruBbish about posters attitudes to sex driving men to prostitutes. Oh please.

I can't speak for others but I have no hang ups inhibitions and my dp and I have a great sex life. Its possibly some weirdo punters attitudes to sex that drive the wives to these sex bans I hear of so often

I don't see how ohbella's view about women's attitudes driving men to use prostitutes negates the rest of her post.

FWIW, I think some men use prostitutes even if they have a great sex life at home. And if men are not getting any at home for whatever reason, it is not an excuse to find alternative sexual release, with a prostitute or otherwise, without first discussing with his partner.

Yes, some women buy sex too but the numbers are tiny compared to the numbers of men who buy sex and within a patriarchy the context is completely different. Do we really have to do the 'women do it too' thing? I find it tedious and unproductive.

I've no problem with sex being separated from love or commitment but I don't think I could bring myself to have sex with someone who wasn't genuinely into it.

TTC sex is borne of love, commitment and a common goal, surely, so not really relevant.

The other example you give - women having sex when they're not really into it but their partners are - is, IMO, quite unhealthy. The relationships board frequently has threads about men who 'expect' sex and I think it stinks. I think those men's attitudes have quite a lot in common with p unters' attitudes ... entitlement is the word for it, I believe.

I can imagine situations where I was desperate enough to sell sex. I cannot imagine any situations where I would buy it or feel that that was OK. I think it's dehumanising.

Well pubes, that is why we are different then.

I don't think to buy sex is dehumanising nor is it dehumanising to sell sex. If both parties consent and are of the right mindset, it is just a commercial transaction.

I don't think it is unhealthy to pleasure your partner even when you are not that into it. In fact, it is an act of love. If a woman expects to be fully aroused before engaging in sex, well there are going to a lot of sex droughts in marriages with young children. In my case, when I was bf-ing, which was a total of 4.5 years, that killed all sexual desire in me and sex was uncomfortable. Should I expect dh to go without sex for all that time? If so, I would consider that a breach of the marriage contract.

how sad

I personally think it sad to frame everything in terms of the patriarchy. Must choke you up.

Carmenelectra, your post is nothing but personal opinion.

I could argue the same against a person who works in a buthers shop or slaughter house, losing sleep over all the animals that have been slaughtered, or a soldier who may kill people only on the command of his possibly corrupt government.

You cannot base an argument on just your opinion.

You can accuse her of selling her soul (your words) and proclaim that she gets "mauled" by the men she sees, but this is just nonsensical rubbish that you've pulled out of your nether regions.

I wonder, do you also crusade against all people who's lifestyles you find a bit different to your own? Are you really that intolerant? Do you dream of a world populated with carbon copies of yourself?

I think that's exactly what makes me feel uncomfortable about prostitution. If a husband and wife are having problems that needs to be looked at rather than solve it by going to a prostitute which is only going to deteriorate the marriage.
And it seems that the men concerned are getting their needs attended to whereas their wives aren't. I just don't believe that women don't want sex as much as men. Maybe they want it in a different way. Maybe they don't have the same sense of entitlement. Prostitution facilitates a situation where men get to eat their cake whilst women are left unsatisfied.

Messy, women can buy sex too. It is out there. Women can have their cake and eat it too, if that is what they want.

Even if that makes you uncomfortable, why is the answer criminalising punters? Surely that is a massive overreaction.

Carmen: You said:
"ohbella, you were doing quite a good job of convincing me then and giving a reasonable argument. Until you trotted out the old ruBbish about posters attitudes to sex driving men to prostitutes. Oh please."

I never posted that, because I do not for one second believe that, you have me confused with another poster on this thread. You read PNet. Look for the MN thread on PN and the nickname lovekitties. That's me chick.

It's a bit late tonight for me to engage, it's 11:30 where I am in the world and I have to be up at 5am. I'll be back tomorrow if this threads still going.

Yeah but I don't think women buying sex is their thing. I don't think women would get off on having sex with a man that doesn't want it. I'm pretty sure though that women don't want their husbands/boyfriends to be part-time punters.

And I didn't say I wanted it banned because it made me uncomfortable. I just said it made me feel uncomfortable. The reason I'd like to see it banned is because I don't believe that, on balance, it's not exploitative. And I don't see how you stop all the crap stuff that happens (trafficking, underage,psychological abuse, etc) whilst still keeping the not so crap stuff, ie. women who are genuinely ok with being prostitutes.

ohbella I apologise it wasn't you, it was avaboosmummy. Sorry!
Oh and thanks for the compliment that you kind of like me!
Gigabot, I haven't really got morals objections to prostitution. If read my other posts you will see that. Yes maybe it is my personal opinion. I don't care. I don't believe thatthe women do like being mauled by old geezers. I wouldn't have at age 20 and I would nt now. So there. Neither would the average woman.

I think there is some confusion on this thread.We shouldn't criminalise the men who buy sex we should criminalise the women who SELL sex.It's just like the drugs trade.We should criminalise the sellers and offer treatment to the unfortunate men who get addicticted.

Hi wisdom

I haven't heard of the condition of prostitute addiction. Where can I read about this, please?

Hi,doctrine.Try Wikipedia under 'Sexual Addiction' - there's quite a lot of useful info.HTH.

gigabot, intolerant busybody?! That made me laugh.

What exactly am I meant to be intolerant of? You have lost me

I think maybe you are looking for me to supply some statistics to back up what I am saying? Sorry I don't have any. I am allowed to post an
Personal opinion aren't I?!

I forgot to ask, are you a punter, Gigabot?

I've just had a look at punternet and I wish I hadn't now. Its madee feel both sad and angry. Old men who admit 'they are no oil painting' appraising and rating these young women's bodies, talking of them like prize cows or lumps of meat. Surely as a society we can do better than that!

There is a discussion there about this thread- and the attitudes of these men to real- life relationships is just depressing. They say that wives and girlfriends are the same as prostitutes- just with their men for money and houses, or for someone to care for their children. They make no allowances at all for real life mutual attraction and love. They can't conceive of relationships where men and women are equals who mutually respect and love each other, enjoy sex together and want to have children.

There's some stuff on there by girls who talk of being harassed for sex without a condom too - And punters scamming them. It's all just too seedy - never visiting that site again.

I remember a few years ago when all this was being discussed after that psyco killed those poor women in Ipswich.

There was a lady from The English Collective of Prostitutes on the Today program. She made the point that these discussions are problematic because people talk of prostitutes as one homoginous group.

Where as there is an obvious difference between some poor desperate crack addicted teenager standing in a gloomy street at 1 am giving blow jobs for £10, and an escort charging £800ph from a penthouse flat in Mayfair.

One clearly needs help, support and intervention, the other not.

Think that is definitely one of the most distubing things about grunternet is the men have no concept of real, loving, equal relationships. All the talk of buying partners gifts in exchange for sex is insane. All I can think is some of these men must have met some serious goldiggers. Do they not understand that in a happy equal relationship you buy a gift as an expression of love, not to get a blow job.

There seems to be a lot of older men who have rubbish sex lives and have never been able to discuss it with their wives. They appear to have a really unhealthy attitude to sex, in the sense that seeing prostitutes takes the pressure off their poor wives. Like sex is something we endure and occasionally put up with in exchange for what they see as providing a nice lifestyle.

This is the 21st century and myself and dp's lifestyle and children are funded by both of us. Even if I didn't work, he wouldn't be expecting sex in exchange for a new sofa. We have sex because we both want it. I don't think these men have any comprehension of a healthy, happy relationship at all.

Exactly carmen. They don't view women as equal human beings at all. To them, all women are only with a man for what they can get out the materially, whether they are prostitutes or not. A horrible attitude. Plus they seem completely unaware that there are many, many working mums, and people without children on MN.