Dear rape apologists and whiners: I've done all the Bad Things. Repeatedly. It's never thevictim's fault.

[solidgoldbrass]

I haven't been raped.This is because lots of men are not rapists, and don't immediately rape women who are drunk, wearing short skirts or out after dark without an owner. If you think that any of the above things, or being asleep in a bed near a man, or even having some willing sexual activity with a man and then saying actually no, stop, means it's OK for the man to just go ahead and fuck till he spunks...Would your son do that? Your husband, your best mate, your brother? Do you really think that all the men you know are potential rapists?

That's what I'm saying sighingagain, what if they are both absolutely pissed?

I haven't been raped had my car broken into.This is because lots of men are not rapists theives, and don't immediately rape women who are drunk, wearing short skirts or out after dark steal things that are left in view without an owner. etc etc... Yes of course rape is wrong - on a whole different scale to car crime. But I minimise the risk to myself because there are horrible evil people out there who don't have any respect for other people.

yellowraincoat

If you want to get paralytic then do so.

I would suggest you make arrangements to get home safely before you can't manage it.

It's not just being raped that you have to think about if you're out and getting paralytic.

Shirl, I don't understand, do you mean this is a political discussion so one should say nothing further than rapists rape?

But Shirley, if Roger Rapist tries Hully's door and finds it locked, he might go next door to see if it is unlocked. I think that is the point.

I am not a rape apologist and am all in favour of extreme violence towards these men who do rape. I would delight in kicking the fuck out of anyone who tried to rape me, not that I would like the scenario to arise in the first place.

I tell both my DSS and DD not to get paralytic and have sex, they both know about informed consent, I pick them both up, I worry equally about both of them.

it is not illegal to be drunk

it is illegal to rape

No Hully, as much as I love you, it's about teaching her to be afraid.

The chances of her being spiked and being raped because she's pissed are the same as if she were sober and meeting up with an old friend from school.

No fastidia, that is not what I am saying . Your words not mine. I sense some over hang from the past. Let's leave it in the past.

What if they are both absolutely pissed Fastidia?

do people think that getting drunk make men rapist s?

If so, should we lobby to make it illegal for men to drink alcohol?

How drunk he is isn't really relevant, I don't think. If she's so drunk she can't give proper consent then it's rape, whether he's sober or just as drunk as she is.

Good post, Shirley (the one with the cunts who make and sell te drugs)

I watched a sickening report on these men in Germany. The police were helpless to stop them.

I agree. Taking care of yourself goes for both men and women, particularly young folk.

The soldier who got so pissed that he punched his best mate in a silly argument about a wallet falling off the table - and killed his friend with a single blow. Would never have happened if they hadn't been drinking.

But we sadly do have a problem with drink in this country and until we address that and reduce the numbers of people getting paralytic every weekend, things like this are going to happen.

And when people - women - are particularly vulnerable there are sadly others who will take advantage of them.

I'm not saying that because he's a man, but because he's the 'perpetrator'. The same would be true in reverse if a man was sexually assaulted by a woman.

Shirl, I love you too, but I don't see it as teaching her to be afraid!! I see it as empowering her, I tell both my dc the truth about the world - there are loads of lovely kind decent people out there, but there are also some mad and harmful fucks, and give them rules for what an intelligent person does to try and navigate it.

You said yourself you wouldn't leave a drink unattended, that's what I tell her (and ds), in the exact same way I tell them to look both ways before crossing the road.

I don't say, Ooo, dd, don't leave a drink you might get RAPED, men are SCARY, just calmly tell them sensible (in my view) rules of life. Becaus these things are true and real and I would be failing in my responsibilties if I didn't try and equip them to negotiate life.

It is so complicated though.

A woman is walking home and she is pissed.

A sober man rapes her.

Clearly rape.

A drunk man rapes her.

Clearly rape.

A couple get pissed and shag and neither can remember in the morning except the woman knows she's had sex.

Is that rape?

Every case has to be heard on it's own,there are so many permutations.

If she's so drunk she can't give proper consent then it's rape, whether he's sober or just as drunk as she is.

In my eyes, if they are both just as drunk as each other, then they are both as guilty as each other, one of rape, one of sexual assault - because neither is in a state to give consent.

(That is assuming for both parties it appears to be consensual at the time).

Are women to be seen as helpless victims who need to be protected from theirselves, because I think this is a very dangerous line to be treading.

The scenario where both "appear" to consent, and are both equally drunk, is going to be the "norm" for many young couples.

And i would think that it's all personal.

Very sad about that soldier

but his alcohol consumption doesn't excuse his criminal behaviour

exactly as if he had drunk driven or raped

If we are going to lobby over anything, I'd like to lobby over better sex ed in schools and colleges to talk to teenage girls and boys about what consent is and isn't. It might prove eye-opening. A friend of mine teaches sex ed or whatever it is currently called and has told me some shocking things about the lads views on what is acceptable behaviour. Basically he has had to tell them - no - that is rape.

But of course Hully.

And I tell my boys all sorts of stuff. "don't get too drunk when you're older" "please don't get ear stretchers, you WILL regret it" ...

"remember that sex is a mutual act and you need to make sure that you are both in the same place - make sure EVERY TIME that you are welcome"

With the greatest respect you are not empowering your daughter. You are giving her false hope and belief, and most damaging of all you are waving a magic wand of nonsense over her.

As I said at the beginning of this thread. I have had ONS, worn "inappropriate clothing", been dead drunk, walked home alone.

I never encountered a rapist.

Fastidia
He was found not guilty of manslaughter, which I found surprising. I agree that he should not be excused because he was drunk, although he obviously had no idea that his actions would lead to the death of his friend.

My point is that we should teach our children of the dangers of alcohol but in a general way.

And let's face it. Our parents tried to warn us and we ignored them.

Merci
I agree 100%

The question of consent is not raised in sex ed lessons.

It should be.

Agree merci.