Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

[Nyac]

article by Julie Bindel in the New Statesman.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/fun-feminism-women-feminist

Quote:

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working. "Fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin along with the Lib Dem party."

Agree with Julie, that it's extremely irritating to see a bunch of interlopers attempting to elbow their way in and co-opt feminism, redefining it to suit patriarchy's needs. I've even seen people who support patriarchal institutions like marriage, BDSM or the sex industry calling themselves radical feminists. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about feminism out there that people feel like they can grab what they like without making an actual political commitment or any kind of challenge to the patriarchy.

Really liberal feminism (the old kind, not the sex industry supporting kind) and radical feminism are the only kinds of feminism that have ever effected any kind of positive change for women. They need to be reclaimed and supported, not erased by third wave non-feminist feminism.

She's right about the lib dems too. :D Or maybe they are in the same boat and need some classic liberals to reclaim their party from the Tory party's whipping boys.

I like to think that feminism is meant to be challenging rather than comfortable.

Portofino - I think what bugs me about some posts in this section is that it is about feminism - not just radical. I consider myself a feminist because I want equality for women, but feel like anything I post will be dismissed because my views are not extreme enough. It is not nice to be made to feel that because I wear makeup, high heels and don't hold strident opinions that I am 'damaging to other women' - in Bindel's words.
And any attempt to suggest that men as a group should be considered in an argument seems to be yelled down ie 'Can we ever have a discussion without whining on about the menz?'

All women should be allowed a say in what feminism can be, surely? Isn't it for the good of us all? Or am I just another brainwashed funbot?

Just to be clear, I'm not slating equality amongst women and men. I'm slating hat I have discovered to be radical feminism. I think it puts a lot of people off this board.

There are plenty of ding dongs between regs as well chubfuddler. Everyone thinks they are right!

'I actually don't think you have the right to define what is a feminist - except for yourself'

Isn't that what JB is trying to do? She is saying that quite a lot of things are not what feminism is, for anyone?

You're not slating equality for women but you're happy misrepresenting the demand for equality as a demand for supremacy while giving no evidence at all that people on here are after female supremacy.

Miz, then you should hang around, because whilst SOME posters might think like that, it is not everyone. And why should you be afraid to state your case? It's no different to any other thread, some will agree, some will be ambilvilent, some will strongly disagree.

If you have an opinion post it, defend it
You may win you may lose the debate
But it'd a bit rich to say oh I don't post and I don't like that you don't post my opinioms to save me the bother

For those of you who are taking offence at the idea of 'fun-feminism' being denigrated, do you think that stripping and the like should be considered viable career choices that we should encourage our daughters towards?
My feelings are that if we lived in a utopian society where sex was not a tool of oppression then it would be fine. As it currently stands though, by buying into the idea that selling your body is fine and dandy, sets the fight for equality back decades.

If people are put off this board despite being feminists they can post their own.opinions or they can ignore it

Plenty of people, like me, like it as it is
Different strokes etc

As for marriage, it works for individuals but it is detrimental to women and equality on a larger scale because it started within a patriarchal frame work and is yet to be reformed from that central concept that it was traditionally used to signify the ownership of a woman by a man.

'I actually don't think you have the right to define what is a feminist - except for yourself'

But this is a political thing. Say you considered yourself "Socialist", but held certain views that it is OK for a group of people to keep a proportion of the wealth for themselves, as that is your family we are talking about, and you don't see a problem, as YOU are OK and agree with Socialist principles in general....

I don't mind the occasional what about the menz discussion; I have a son and I do sometimes want to chat about how we bring boys up because gender roles can be damaging to men and boys in specific ways. I think that is rather different to people turning threads that are about women into ones about men.

I also wear makeup, dresses and low cut tops. I have admitted all of this on here and have not been demonised for it. I don't feel got at by the Bindel article. She isn't criticising women for doing these; she is criticising women who make out that it is empowering and a feminist statement to do those things.

Quick question and apologies if this isn't the place for it, but I thought the 'slutwalks' were by feminists?

Turnip, I am not saying all people on this board are seeking female supremacy. I'm saying, some are and I really don't understand why the feminists on this board don't challenge that. However, I can understand it must be tiring, with all the twisting of words and psychological bullying. Seriously, the feminists on this board should try to balance the extremism. As in any ideology, extremists don't help the cause, they give a bad reputation. From what I've encountered today, that's how this board comes accross. It's a shame, I know it's only one day, but seriously, stand up for beliefs. I'm not a regular and I find it vitriolic, don't know how regulars must feel.

They were, but a lot of feminists didn't agree with the idea of them.

Slutwalks are meant to be based around the concept of women being able to wear what they want without fearing rape. This is the wrong approach as the focus needs to be on educating men (and sometimes women) not to assault people in the first place.

Marriage is detrimental? I'm not married but you are insinuating any relationship with a man is patriarchal and detrimental?

Who is seeking female supremacy? Please say where you have seen it.
Because I have spent a lot of time on here and I have not come across it.

this is bindel preaching be more be more me
and you're adopting similar if it ain't radical it ain't feminism stance
well fortunately that's not a view universally shared

Without extremism, there will be no change because people demanding things in moderate forms will be ignored.

Also, I have only been reason about radical feminism for a day, but the same arguments are trotted out again and again, without any evidence. It reminds me of people who disbelieve darwinism because, only God could have made something as wonderful as a human eye...

fridakahlo so my being in a happy and equal marriage is to you me being owned? So should I lose my happiness for the greater good not that I would

No, I did not say relationships with men are bad. I said that the institution of marriage was formed in a time when the concept was about ownership and this is yet to be fully reformed and will struggle to be whilst we live in a patriarchal society.

I think it is something to do with male version of sexuality being held up as the standard and we should all aspire to it. I have heard many men say oh I'd love t o have sex and get paid for it etc etc
The problem is we haven't yet defined an authentic sexuality of our own. We were so long repressed, now we are in the middle of faux liberation. And we're as boxed into that as we were in old role
Neither is real.
It definitely suits some women, as I've said before. But not others yet we're corralled in thereby.the common sense view that sec is just a laugh, you must not be a prude, etc.