Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

[Nyac]

article by Julie Bindel in the New Statesman.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/fun-feminism-women-feminist

Quote:

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working. "Fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin along with the Lib Dem party."

Agree with Julie, that it's extremely irritating to see a bunch of interlopers attempting to elbow their way in and co-opt feminism, redefining it to suit patriarchy's needs. I've even seen people who support patriarchal institutions like marriage, BDSM or the sex industry calling themselves radical feminists. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about feminism out there that people feel like they can grab what they like without making an actual political commitment or any kind of challenge to the patriarchy.

Really liberal feminism (the old kind, not the sex industry supporting kind) and radical feminism are the only kinds of feminism that have ever effected any kind of positive change for women. They need to be reclaimed and supported, not erased by third wave non-feminist feminism.

She's right about the lib dems too. :D Or maybe they are in the same boat and need some classic liberals to reclaim their party from the Tory party's whipping boys.

This thread was ignored for ages, and now it isn't, it's just turned into another bash the feminists session.

Male rights activists

Nyac - so you started a thread bashing "fun feminists" to use that awful term, and now you're getting all upset that they're talking back at you? Funny that.

Thanks Nyac, that's helpful. I take back the 'journalistic shorthand' comment.
I stand by the rest though.

If you dont want any disagreements to be posted, I think there is some sort of quiche , or corner, or something that MN has.

Mens Rights Activists

mra=mens right activist,oft touted putdown if pov not agreed with
the down side of fem topics is can be dreadfully bogged down in name calling and youse is this and that

'I an a feminist & by the way I do pole fit / take burlesque classes / enjoy BDSM' then I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say 'oh well I know you agree with equality, are against rape etc., but you're not actually a feminist - you're an interloper'.

I wouldn't say that at all, but I would (now) ask you why you think those things are good. And you are not allowed to use the word "empowerment"

The thing for me about this section is I don't come here for comfort and support. I come here to have my views challenged and to challange other peoples. With that in mind, this section works perfectly.

I believe men and women are equal in worth and value and should be treated as such. I have the right to live my life as I see fit, as long as it isn't harming other people. If that means I want to wear skirts and make up and shag men, that's my look out.

I like BDSM because it gets me off. But I also see how it reflects the patriartchal framework of society.

Eclectic, I don't know if anybody has noticed but you're doing a good line in anti-feminist propaganda here:

"brainwashing"
"female supremacy"
"psychological bullying"
"reminds me of religion"
"Extremism"

These are pretty harsh words towards people who you claim are the nasty ones. I'd say you're pointing your criticism in the wrong direction if you're objecting to aggression. Look at your own behaviour.

has got better since a few flouncers went
the egos who tried to tell mnhq how it is...only to leave when mnhq asserted it's their board and they determine the ethos

I don't remember anybody leaving.

Can we remember what "fun fems" support:

pornography
prostitution
the sex industry
BDSM

Women who are promoting those things as feminist do need to be held to account. Feminism is a political movement to help women, we can't allow it to be turned into something that promote harm to women.

What's an interloper?

aye,a few flounced
dark accusation on mnhq not supporting fem topics
big stooshie at time

Did anyone get round to explaining 'female supremacy' with examples of its promotion on these boards yet? I'd be fascinated to learn more. We owe the trolls, MRAs, blatant shit-stirrers whatever they are some thanks simply for driving traffic here, not for the first time I click on something in Active Convos and have my consciousness raised without even noticing I have strayed into the feminist area.

Portofino actually I didn't say those things were good, bad or indifferent.

And it was the OP who spoke of 'interlopers', which is a choice of language i really don't like. I know it was not you who used that word.

My point was not whether burlesque dancing is feminist (I think for the most part it's a bit daft & no I don't think it in itself is feminist), but whether a woman can undertake those activities and still claim the feminist label. I would argue that she can and in general, it's better that she does.

Nope, not so far Flatulette

ooh, I knew Portofino would be in trouble.

I think there is a big distinction between participating in an activity and promoting it as feminist or liberating. The criticism here is surely of the latter not the former.

Queenof but hopefully not claimimg that by doing those things she promotes the onward march of feminism.

scottishmummy,was it mnhq not supporting fem topics?

Maybe we need a defition of fun fem aka "sex positive feminist" which is who Julie Bindel is criticising.

Sex positive feminists do believe that the route to women's liberation is through fucking. Being paid is apparently even better, as is taking part in sadistic sex with men. It's a travesty of feminism, and I'd be really interested to hear why people are so offended at it being criticised.