Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

[Nyac]

article by Julie Bindel in the New Statesman.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/fun-feminism-women-feminist

Quote:

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working. "Fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin along with the Lib Dem party."

Agree with Julie, that it's extremely irritating to see a bunch of interlopers attempting to elbow their way in and co-opt feminism, redefining it to suit patriarchy's needs. I've even seen people who support patriarchal institutions like marriage, BDSM or the sex industry calling themselves radical feminists. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about feminism out there that people feel like they can grab what they like without making an actual political commitment or any kind of challenge to the patriarchy.

Really liberal feminism (the old kind, not the sex industry supporting kind) and radical feminism are the only kinds of feminism that have ever effected any kind of positive change for women. They need to be reclaimed and supported, not erased by third wave non-feminist feminism.

She's right about the lib dems too. :D Or maybe they are in the same boat and need some classic liberals to reclaim their party from the Tory party's whipping boys.

Electric shock, it'd not about supremacy and extremism. Those are very loaded terms as you know. Using them here smacks of stirring rather than engagement

Don't be s feminist if you don't want. Nobody will force you

Now I consider myself on a journey. I totally disagreed with radical feminism when I found myself in the FWR early threads. Had many a barney with certain key posters. But I listened, and I read, and I thought about stuff a lot. And I realised I didn't disagree quite so much.....

And yes, some things I still find a bit extreme. But I stop to think about these things and make my own mind up. For sure, there is still a lot to do before women are seen as truly equal. I, personally, don't think becoming MORE like men is the way forward, or the extreme Capitalist Xenia type opinions. I am learning and listening still. Nothing will happen if we only accept the fluffy bits.

What generally happens when people disagree with your viewpoint? Ie radical feminism. I guess they give up and those that are weak enough to be influenced by your illogical argument succumb?

Oh
I'd given you yje benefit of the doubt.
bit that's not what you are after is it?

To be honest, I'm in a bit of a slump at the moment.

But prior to that, both of my previous jobs were in male dominated areas and I worked in almost entirely male teams. It wasn't my intention; it is just the way it worked out.

Why are you asking?

I am similar to portofino. I wouldn't say I consider myself to be a radical feminist but I'm afraid I do feel a bit when someone decides I'm not a feminist at all just because I'm married. Marriage may once have been a tool of patriarchal dominance, I agree that was the case. But it doesn't have to be.

Porto, you mean you were brainwashed. It's hilarious that I am not allowed to use "loaded" terms, which perfectly describe your approach IMO. I will not be censored by your social rules. I'm allowed to be a freethinker and day what I want. Bullying me psychologically, no matter how subtle or sophisticated does not impact me. I'm a humanist, those are my beliefs.

Eclectic - Why do you want to know if we are successful in a male dominated area? Are you going to answer any questions people are asking you?

Do you know what a humanist is?

How did you find that seahouses? How did you become successful and juggle your radical feminism... If indeed you are a radical feminist.

so if people disagree with you they must be brainwashed, EclecticShock?

It does make me chuckle now that posters come into this section and are so shocked by radical feminist views being expressed. It's a bit like going in to Pram huns and calling people ridiculous for asking opinions on the latest bug-a-bollocks, or going in Travel and saying, "I don't have a passport, can't understand why you'd want to go off to those foreign places".

I don't like the article much - I suppose I feel a pretty fair-weather feminist compared to Julie Bindel.

She does say that feminism has a goal, but I still wonder how she will know when feminism has achieved its goal. I must have worked in the NHS too long - I'm worried about her outcome measures...

Too many questions to answer. For example I have seen that some people on this board get very annoyed when men are mentioned on topics relating to rape or fenital mutilation. Why? It's something that affects everyone not just women.

So this is only a space for radical feminism now? Who got to decide that then?

I don't see any contradiction between getting on with men and being a radical feminist. So I'm not sure what I'd say about my work experiences that wouldn't be waffle.

I'm.not sure what I think about this fun feminism lark

Is it to to do with the belief that sex itself is / means exactly the same to men and women? That its only the repression of the past that had made it such a big psychological deal for women and therefore we should leave aside our old (repressed? Respectful? ) notions and embrace the sterreotypically male approach. Does this mean we deny of own reality yo appeal to men? Which begs the old nature nurture thing. I don't doubt that plenty of women love the male approach. And plenty of men like the female attitude.

Seriously, radical feminism ( not feminism), is completely unscientific with no evidence and it reminds me of religion. Believe an ask no questions... What purpose does it serve other than to control? Does it actually help anyone in a practical sense?

Brainwashed! I can assure you I am perfectly able to form my own opinions! I too work in a male dominated industry - 70/30 at my employer. I am successful because I am good at my job, and I live in Belgium which is much higher up the equality scale than the UK.

I don't think so Chubfuddler but people shouldn't be surpried if radical views are expresed.

Chubfuddler, it ISN'T of course.

I'm not surprised by them. I'm a little by the vehemence with which some posters in this section insist that their brand of rad feminism is feminism and there is no other sort. It's a little off putting.

Freethink away. You'll find plenty of company - you certainly won't end up a lonely hermit whom the masses just don't get.

Seriously, I just feel that radical feminism which is why I have mainly read today on this board, is really over thinking things and providing no benefit to anyone. Extremism in society provides no benefit. We all live together as one, as a group identity. Extremism alienates the majority and causes negativity rather than positivity.

Interlopers? Really?

I actually don't think you have the right to define what is a feminist - except for yourself - whether you're Germaine Greer, Andrea Dworkin or Jeremy bloody Clarkson. It's a broad term and really, I would prefer morre people consider themselves feminist than not (see all the 'ooh I want equal pay, but I'm not a feminist' type apologism on other online forums).

I would agree that certain activities probably don't sit easily with radical feminism and it is of course acceptable to challenge those who claim this label while undertaking activities that would seem contrary to their self-proclaimed ideology.

Likewise you are not of course obliged to give every newbie with a push up bra lessons on radical feminism 101. Having said that, a sneering attitude is unlikely to win many converts.