Something that's been bothering me

[mumwithdice]

I've been doing a lot of reading lately and talking with DH about his work. He says that one difficulty he has is with women whom he knows to be capable and competent coming up to ask him to do really ridiculously simple things in breathy little-girl type voices (they put these voices on specifically). He tries to manage this by showing them how to do whatever it is not doing it for them. He has also had women try to avoid learning any technical things which are requirements for their jobs (opening zip files) by using the stereotype of women not being capable of techy stuff as a get-out clause.

So what bothers me? I suppose, really, I keep feeling that texts are telling me that women don't bear any responsibility for their actions because we live in a patriarchy. That is, that there is nothing wrong with the women above because they're trying to get by in the system. And yet at the same time, I feel that actions like that do a disservice to women who can and do want to do technical things because it only reinforces stereotypes.

So can women do a disservice to other women and thus to the aims of feminism?

I am genuinely asking because I don't know the answer, it really bothers me not to know, and because I've found this board quite good at answering questions. Also, again, if this is Feminism 101, please tell me and I will look it up there.

... in case it isn't obvious, that was meant to be a feminist point. I was indoctrinated to speak softly, smile all the time and be deferential. Because that's what my father deemed suitable in a female. You can take this crap on board without even noticing. It's very damaging.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a man to notice and question some women's behaviour. Surely it's better that the OP's H sees something a bit odd in women adopting the poor-ickle-thilly-me role rather than going 'Aww, bless, women can't help being dim, can they?'

Don't help them, give them the manual.
If they don't have the skills to do the job, they either learn them or make way for someone who is willing to do so.
Offer training in groups so that they are empowered.
Refuse to answer if they use a different voice when speaking to him than they use in normal conversation. Or say 'Excuse me, could you repeat that?'
Treat everyone in the workplace as equally able and competent.

You are saying that it is acceptable for women to not bother learning basic skills in IT? Why would you want them to constantly have to rely on the skills of others, including men, rather than being independent?
Technology isn't going to go away, gods know I've tried to ignore it as much as possible, but even I had to acquire some of the basics in order to be able to do my job. And as a woman past 50, it would be a lot easier to play the dim and helpless female card, because it fulfills the stereotype comfortably.

It's slagging off other women to understand that many women have to compromise their intelligence against misogyny in order to protect themselves emotionally or physically.

It is anti-feminist to consider that you are the first and only definite arbiter of who gets to be a feminist.

Who singled out women. I said who cares if women or anyone aren't interested in learning lots of different aspects of IT. It's boring and it takes up brain space that could be better used elsewhere.

And I don't believe this guy. I think he's perpetuating a sexist stereotype himself, with the "breathy voices" and the women always asking him for help. I ask people for help with IT, I get asked for help with IT. It's what colleagues do for each other. It's not a gendered thing, nor is it a measure for anything. But it is weird that he's coming home and slagging off his female colleagues to his wife.

But you are the arbiter are you Agnes?

Tell me in what world it's a good idea for a man to be perpetuating sexist stereotypes of women, and expecting his wife to join in. Not in a feminist one.

I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I know more than everyone else.

I do know that women do play these kinds of games to protect themselves. I'd like to know what industry her husband works in and whether or not women who don't play into misogynistic sterotypes are punished for their failure to reinforce them.

Well Agnes, it was you who said she deserved a feminist answer, as if she hadn't had one, when she'd already had one from me. You were the one who brought that aspect in, not me.

Are you calling me arrogant? Please be direct if you are.

I took it to be that the OP's husband was puzzled that some of the women he works with were actively choosing to perpetuate the sexist stereotypes of soft baby voice and incompetence with technology and needing a man to sort things out.
By showing them how to do something instead of doing it for them, that's support isn't it?
Or perhaps he should complain to management about their inadequacies and get them sacked instead, and fill the posts with eager young individuals capable of doing what is required.

Well men slagging off women at work and getting them sacked is nothing new is it?

Let's all support men who behave like that. It's lucky we've got feminists here to keep us right on those things.

OK, if that's the option you prefer.

I think it's a classic example of someone thinking they are asking a feminist question without realising that a whole lot of their assumptions are based in sexism.

oP's HUSBAND'S account, sorry

Remember your dungarees and docs then.

Oh please. You've never come across women who suddenly become all helpless? Last month at work, to quote only one of the most recent examples that spring merrily to mind, a door would not shut, and the women in the office all clambered to the only man on that floor to ask him to help. any idiot could have worked out that the rawl plug had gone and a split match would sort it, but no: they had to all go and plead with the big strong man to do something about it. Said big strong man was an epically sexist twat who had twice put his hand over mine on the mouse in order to show me something on the PC (which I knew perfectly well how to operate).

Yes, they might've been operating within the restrictions of a patriarchal society, but no, they were doing nothing to challenge Sexist Twat's perception of women as helpless little beings.

And yes, I did mend the door.

And yes it broke the following day.

Dust no dungarees. But I do have kneepads

I've come across a lot of sexist men who like talking in sexist stereotypes about women. It's not unusual.

I wonder if he has such a big problem with men who ask him for help at work.

& there was me thinking that feminism was a boards set of views and all you had to think was:

1. should women and men be treated the same? Yes
2. are women and men be treated the same? No

isnt thats what makes someone a feminist?

Well number 2 is what the OP's husband is displaying. He's criticising women he works with for asking him to help, and singling them out for their sex.

Do you really think we shouldn't notice sexism when it's posted here Tilly.