Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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OFF this forum...not of.

And yes I think 99% of men who would buy this product at AS would do this. I suspect it would be very very different for users of this product bought through BDSM stores/sites.

Sardine= campaign against your local AS shop, mine ID's anyone who looks under 25. 16 year olds shouldn't be in there.

If AS sells this stuff then i know my DD's (and their friends) will ask me about it, we are open about all relationship stuff.

Lesley- on what do you base your assumptions on? Why are you making assumptions. Do you carry out perpetrator/victim work?

No I don't. Have been a youth worker in the recent past though. And i think the pornification of society is seriously affecting young people's perception of what is normal in a sexual relationship.

I don't mean that 99% of men will physically force a partnerw ho doesn't want it. I mean that they will encourage a young woman to do this and encourage a young woman to think that she should enjoy something she doesn't.

Lesley that's a wild accusation and really offensive. You can't assume that 99% of men who would buy ths product would force their partners to do something they did not want to...it's a terrible thing to say....how do you manage to interact with me in general if that's your opinion of them???

if I said "99% of women who would buy this product are deluded and abused" you'd agree?

Coming back to a post made by Birds earlier, I think abuse quite often does start in the bedroom. Talking to young women, it appears that sex is the medium through which boundaries are often ground down and it works precisely because the increased pornification of our society has normalised practices such as shaving your genitals, anal sex and deep throat. I'm not making a value judgment on any of those practises, but normalising things does make them more acceptable and puts those who don't enjoy them immediately in the position where they have to justify or explain themselves. This applies in all aspects of society

Once you've managed to convince a girl that she should enjoy anal sex or deep throat because everyone else does so it can't be that bad or unusual, it's not that difficult to persuade her the following week that calling her a name or belittling her is not that big a deal, and so on, eventually into full-scale domestic abuse.

The blurb implies that, for a woman, giving a BJ is arduous and hard work, also implying that it's not pleasurable. At the same time the strap is described as 'soft and sexy', .

This is for the enhancement of men's pleasure, while at the same time protecting your glorious locks! Because women with short hair don't do bjs.

When I make love I know it's going to be messy, especially if I ejaculate (which is a fantastic experience btw and not a myth). Bed hair is much sexier imho.

And I resent the implication that to dislike this ad implies prudery and/or primness. And no one can claim to be a feminist and enjoy porn. End of.

x posts....and I meant "men in general" not ME in general.

And as for your explanation...that is also offensive...MOST men are thoughtful and kind lovers. The minority are not. Not the majority.

Dworkin can we move away fromt the blurb? It's badly written yes...but as a writer of product descriptions I can tell you hand on heart that it was probably done by an underpaid writer who never thought about the semantics of BDSM and Feminism...and AS head office would not have read it before it was published.

What about MY enhancement? Why can't a woman enojy being restrained? And I have short hair so what are you saying?

I didn'y say most men aren't kind and thoughtful lovers. I said men who would buy this product in an AS shop. I even said I think it would be very different from men who buy this product in a BDSM shop/site.

IME most men are not particularly caring in bed TBH. A lot of men are really quite shit in bed and really only interested in their own pleasure.

Some are marvellous obviously but it takes quite an effort to find one.

Men argue that they watch porn because it increases their enjoyment of sex. Their enhancement takes precedence over the objectification and abuse of women.

It's not all about me, me, me.

Poster above said what about lesbians but didn't explain it further when asked. I am a lesbian actually and BDSM extreme practices are I think very rare in the UK lesbian community. Vanilla type restraint isn't very rare and that is what tends to be debated and brings about divided opinion.

I'm probably going off on a tangent here but I'd like to go back to something awkwardmary said about bringing girls up with the confidence to say no. I've taken a bit of offence to that. I have been brough up with the confidence to say no, but it didn't stop one bastard doing what he wanted anyway. Maybe I wasn't confident enough with my 'No'?

Let's bring boy up with the respect to stop when they hear a no, confident or not.

And I too think this product is vile.

I can't see the relevance of lesbian sex to this argument. Lesbian sex involves two women so is immediately set apart from the typical patriarchal influence over sex. There isn't a man - with a cultural privilege millennia old that accompanies him - in the bedroom with two lesbians.

Look. It's distasteful/outrageous/shocking (take your pick).

BUT there are many men and women who enjoy bondage domination sadomasochism within CONSENSUAL straight/gay (take your pick) relationships.

Some WI/daily fail reading American tan pop Socked middle aged ladies probably also find the idea of fluffy handcuffs, ticklers, cock rings, dog collars, whips, open crotch leather panties blah blah blah sex swings, double ended dildos blah blah blah disgusting, vile, dangerous etc.

But come on. Women have PIV and PIM mouth all the time. And enjoy it. A (in my opinion ludicrous most like to be seen as a joke present) sex toy/object which may or may not appeal to consenting adults of a bdsm nature is not the most pressing of feminist issues IMO.

I also think that putting the onus on girls to say no, while marketing these types of products on the high street, is a bit off too.

Young people who are starting out on their sex lives are usually experimenting together. They will try stuff, even if they suspect quite strongly that they might not like it! Handing them butt plugs and massive vibrators and head restraints feels off to me.

Go to the relationship boards, abuse most certainly doesn't start in the bedroom.

I have never done work with an abuser/abused and there hasn't been abuse before they have even slept together.

I agree that young women,who often haven't been treated well in their childhood, or who have witnessed their mothers not being treated well,don't understand what a healthy relationship is, so don't recognise what is abuse, the same can be said often with the abusers.

I have been involved with very good perpetrator projects and have seen change take place, it all starts with how the man thinks about women in general and has been shown what a woman's place is, often before they are even aware of sex.

Though I think the product is vile and the marketing blurb is foul.

I do not think 'ban this filth' or hey we are all sexual beings let it go.

Debating this is important, more so than the conclusion as people should talk openly about the many different ways any kind of 'sex toy' can be represented and used. There is no absolute right or wrong on this issue it is so contextual and the same sexual act can be viewed very differently depending on the audience/ participants.

I want my daughters to be aware of the debate and empowered to make their choices when they are adults based on information not ignorance of the minefield of modern sexual relations.

BDSM fetishizes abuse. That is the point of it - and that is why radical feminists have a political issue with it.

BDSM fetishizes submission and domination - the power dynamic upon which patriarchy is founded and perpetuated.

BDSM fetishizes patriarchy.

BDSM fetishizes male supremacy.

BDSM fetishizes female oppression (no matter what the sex of the sub).

The above is my political analysis of BDSM as a radical feminist. It is a political analysis and not a judgement of people's personal sex lives. You can of course be a feminist and practice BDSM - but that does not make BDSM a feminist practice or an empowering one. It remains a very patriarchal practice.

The blow job restraint is nasty - it is main-streaming choking porn and oral rape.

That product is vile made me feel quite sick

I think it is nice to discover these things later in life, rather than start out with them from the word go.

It just seems a bit sad. And grim.

Yes. I have been on the receiving end of men who have got totally carried away and grabbed my head so hard that I was gagging and had to struggle to get away because they wouldn't let go. They were so focused on how it felt that, tbh, they'd forgotten all about me!

An aid to secure a woman's head is, imo, not a good idea unless the man remains focused on the woman and is very aware of how she's feeling and looking and is able to watch and make sure she's comfortable.