Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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Lesley-i am bi and no lesbian bondage isn't rare.

oh, meant to ask - and how likely is that? Not very, going on my own experiences of being pinned!

Vanilla type bondage isn't - BDSM is. And my impression has always been that in the bi community BDSM is more common. This sin't the same as the lesbian community.

"An aid to secure a woman's head is, imo, not a good idea unless the man remains focused on the woman and is very aware of how she's feeling and looking and is able to watch and make sure she's comfortable."

How likely is this? do you mean?

So, we should diminish the experiences of women likely to be abused through BDSM, or even through this product, on the behalf of the women who do enjoy it.

Fuck that.

Should we diminish the experience of victims of DV, because I enjoy the martial arts?

Or should we diminish the experience of rape victims, because some women enjoy being dominated, or enjoy rough sex?

I had to have a think about why I find this product horrible in a way that I don't find fluffy handcuffs horrible. (I mean, I do consider them horrible in a tacky sort of way, and...I;m talking politically here, not my sexual or aesthetic tastes).

Other paraphanalia is about fantasy and role play. Presumably the idea of fluffy handcuffs is that the handcuffer applies them with the intention of bestowing pleasure on the handcuffed, and releasing the handcuffed from any responsibility for reciprocal pleasure - it is a symbol of 'I will give you inescapable pleasure'. There is a degree of mutual fantasy and role play.

This item seems geared to a functional purpose which is that the RECEIVER of pleasure is in control of the giver - in direct contrast to fluffy restraint toys. It says 'I want you to give me pleasure and I am in physical control of you giving me pleasure'.

I suspect that this is the high street version of a technique that some men have learned to employ, using T Shirts or scarves or something.

I wonder if it is common amongst me who have sex with men?

I do not usually post in feminist threads but was intrigued by the Ann Summers bit. Women can enjoy kinky sex too you now it has nothing to do with a man being in control some women like to enjoy this kind of product.

Birds - the relationship boards are full of women in long-term relationships, mostly fitting the MN demographic.

What about all those women out there - especially young women - for whom sex is a feature in a relationship very early on. Indeed, in some cases, the idea of what is considered sexually acceptable is broached before the couple even meet when it comes to online dating. Asking a woman what she will and will not do is, for some men, an ideal way of determining which women will be easier to abuse than others.

Obviously, if you're internet dating and you come across a prize like that, most women will kick him into touch, but it's often a lot more subtle than that, and takes place after a date that has actually been very enjoyable.

BTW I do not want dd1 and 2 to be discussing the bj strap with me now (aged 3 and 5), just mean that I was well informed partially by my parents and my sex ed at school partially through media representations, Judy Blume and an 'interesting' book owned by my father I found and other sources. This information, I believe, helped me to navigate sex be more aware and become 'active' later than many of my peers.

The internet means we cannot expect teens not to be aware of these products/ types of sexual behaviours and campaigning to ban them one by one is not going to be the answer. So regardless of personal feelings it is important to acknowledge their existance and talk giving a healthier context to the images they are bombarded with.

Yes, Sardine, I do.

Going on my personal experiences of somehow being forgotten about - iyswim

Are there any other feminists here who are feeling the weight of the backlash in this product/discussion of this product? .

Thing is though, this isn't being marketed at out there bsdm loving, consensual adults, who are into and understand this kind of thing.

It's being marketed to mainstream everyday folks who are probably not as nuanced in their understanding of bondage.

I think it's disingenuous to say ignore the blurb because it's bollocks. It's not a tin of beans, I didn't know what a blow job strap was until I'd read the advert. All I can go on is the blurb. I can tie myself into metaphorical knots by trying to come up with what they actually meant, or I can assume what was written was what they meant. And they didn't write 'have some consensual, bsdm fun when you fancy being dominated by your male partner'.

This item seems geared to a functional purpose which is that the RECEIVER of pleasure is in control of the giver - in direct contrast to fluffy restraint toys. It says 'I want you to give me pleasure and I am in physical control of you giving me pleasure'.

Very well put Blu. I agree with you. And there is a certain type of man who will get pleasure from making a woman gag on his penis - which of course, as has been pointed out, he doesn't need this product to do. This product however normalises and indeed romanticises that sort of sexual abuse.

How is it empowering when young women and girls are on the internet trying to find out how to give deep throat without puking? How is it empowering when young women/girls are seeking the best pain relievers so that they can continue to have (never enjoy) anal sex with their boy'friend' - what friend would treat you in this way.

Obviously these young women are not empowered enough to discuss the issue with their boy'friends' and this is why 'no means no' is so much more a powerful message than 'yes'.

Beachcomber there is a type of woman who enjoys being gagged on a penis also and this is not sexual abuse if both are enjoying the role play. You do not have to buy it it is out there for those who do want it and people should not brand these people non-feminist or giving in to a man's abusive nature. Such generalistions are insane

I'm not my mum.

Obviously the types of women who enjoy gagging on a penis aren't like their mum!

I said making a woman gag - by which I meant forcing, coercing, etc.

I know there are women who enjoy/consent to gagging on penises, and all sorts of painful and body punishing practices. I disagree that because a person has consented or agreed to submit to an act, that the act suddenly becomes non-abusive.

That is what BDSM is - it is submitting to abuse.

ha ha Dworkin !!!

Who was it on here who said something along the lines of: you don't ever hear the truly powerful talking about empowerment. You only ever hear minority and oppressed groups talk about being empowered. It is a way of trying to take control of ancient, internalised oppression.

Excepting those who genuinely enjoy it, the truly empowering thing for many women would be to say 'no' rather than find a way of 'coping' with or 'finding greater enjoyment in' something that they don't actually enjoy that much.

people should not brand these people non-feminist or giving in to a man's abusive nature.

If you read my posts carefully you will see that this is absolutely not the point I am making. I quite clearly stated that of course a woman can practice BDSM and be a feminist. I am not judging the woman, I am analysing the act - I am doing this because that is what feminist analysis does and this conversation is taking place in a feminist section.

but are there women who would engage in it if they did not want to ??? Am I that naive ???

No your not naive but many are and they do engage in activities as I outlined at 10:22 despite not enjoying it.

You're, sorry folding leaflets.

Oh then that's really sad that girls feel that way as outlined in 10:22 and can not imagine why they would do so, is that what feminism is about empowering girls to stand up and make a point. Never really thought about it but I guess I am bringing my girls up to be strong. That has really made me stop to think Dworkin.

There are women who will be coerced or pressured into it.

There are women who will accept a practice because it has been normalized.

There are women who have invested their self-esteem in their relationship with a man and who will submit to practices they would not have otherwise chosen because of that.

There are young women who are just embarking on their sex lives who are surrounded by powerful messages that are patriarchal presentations of female sexuality (pop culture, films, magazines, advertising, products in shops, online porn, etc).

There are women who have absorbed the message that anything goes nowadays and you are a dried up hideous pruney prude if you don't do what everyone else appears to be up to.