Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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Victor you really are starting to sound prim....I am a Feminist and I like getting fucked because I am confident in my own being as a powerful woman. Equally I am confident enough to fuck back.

What annoys me is the ignoring of the fact that sex is a very basic animalistic pastime...it's not really a thing that stands up to academic fiddling is it?

As for restraint tools (if that's better than toys) leaking into the mainstream....if girls are brought up with the confidence to say no then there is not a problem....better these thngs are out there ad being discussed than hidden under the counter of seedy back alley sex shops which are closed to women.

The advent of stores like AS is a good thing....girls can see the things and discuss them.

It's normalising abusive behaviour, tied up in a lacy ribbon. Trivialising making your partner gag as sexual fun.

Really awful.

Victor I do see where you are coming from, but I think there is an equally valid practice where these items do have a place.

I think bordsgottafly has hit the nail on the head. It needs better education. A woman has a right to enjoy BDSM, so like as it is mutually valid. I do think they should be available mainstream, because by hiding it away in seedy sex shops I think it only increases the perception that they are for male dominance and pleasure only.

It really is a marketing issue. The blurb is awful, very one sided. I don't think the person who wrote it actually understands BDSM at all, and I think BDSM items should be more equally marketed.

Oh Hey that's been said...I am waitng for somone to explain why....we've had the arguments that these things MAY be abused by abusers...I have just said that for some women restraint is not abusive.

chops - Sorry I think you are very naive about the messages this gives out and the impact on women and in particular younger woman.

I see chops agrees with me re. hiding these things down grubby back alleys is not a good thing....far better out there and up for discssion. Also my point about the blurb...chops earlier in the thread I re-wrote the blurb from a different perspective as an experiment...it's crappy copy as it is now.

Ooooh, heaven forfend I sound prim! You realise that what you're doing is silencing, don't you?

Er, and actually sex does stand up to academic fiddling, because it takes place in a patriarchal society. In a patriarchal society men and women aren't equal. 'Animalistic' is just another way of saying 'natural', which is just another way of saying 'shush, feminist - this is the way things Have To Be'.

This thread hasn't yet discussed what men think about restraining women in order to fuck them - it's all been about women. Your post reinforces that - 'if girls are brought up with the confidence to say no'.

How about society not marketing things to these girls so that they have to say no? How about society addressing the fact that men use these things as well, and they shouldn't be putting women in a position to say no?

MN has just launched a campaign because WOMEN ARE NOT BELIEVED ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY WHEN WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HAS TAKEN PLACE IN A BEDROOM.

Anne Summers is marketing stuff like this as a way TO PROTECT YOUR HAIR.

Hmmmmm.

As should have rethought the marketing for this product, that is all that they have gotten wrong.

We should be talking about sexual practices, the reaction on this thread would do no woman any good, if they were unsure about what their partner was suggesting. It would cut off any openess by using words such as "just wrong", "vile" and make someone open to abuse by feeling that they cannot talk about any sexual matter, which is what is needed.

We need to teach people what abuse is and how to spot it and that it should not happen in a relationship.

I have to listen to abusive stories, without judgement, posters came onto this thread not wanting to discuss, but to judge the use of this product.

lesley would you rather "protect* young women from the products then? By hiding them in "men only" sex shops? Because that's the way it used to be and products like these woud still be available.

Chops - that's exactly where I'm coming from.

Women should chat about this sort of stuff, and support each other in our choices - but we should acknowledge that we live in a patriarchy, that not all of our choices are good for us, but that sometimes we feel we have negotiated a safe space.

I've posted before about how hard it is to say 'I do X, and I like it, but I do see how it can be harmful as well' and not take a hit to your self-esteem. It can be done (sometimes, of course, it can't!). But it needs to be done even if it is awkward.

Victor once again you are ignoring the fact that some women LIKE being restrained. Ann Summers chose a bad copywriter....the copy is shit...the writer was probably told to keep it light hearted as that's the way AS keeps things approachable.

Given that you're ignoring everything I've posted, AwkwardMary, I don't think there's much point in carrying on discussions between the two of us.

These aren't being marketed for girls, only over 18's can buy them.

Girls and boys need to be shown what a healthy relationshipis and taught that, also.

Domination in the bedroom should be an open subject, so that it is made clear that it should only happen in an equal relationship. I hear about how the relationship was abusive, before the couple ever got to the bedroom.

The abuse in other areas always comes first, it doesn't start in the bedroom. We should be telling people that f they don't want to indulge in a practice, then they don't, whether it is sexual or anything else.

Mary there have been far more arguments presented on this thread than 'it might be used for abuse'

It does normalise abuse and enable abusive men to convince women to do things they wouldn't otherwise because 'everyone is doing it'. This I know for a fact. And bdsm is not all safe words and consent. I know this too for a fact.

But as has been pointed out over and over it is not about my or your personal experiences. You lurve it, I was abused through it. So what? What about what it says more widely about the way women are seen/treated etc and the impacts that had on wider society? That's the feminist analysis not your choices or my lack of choice.

Saying no gets harder when the high street tells you that being forced is sexy. You might be secure in your sexuality and boundaries, my three pre-teens/teens don't even really know what those things are yet and are forming them in a society that increasingly appropriates abuse porn to sell things.

I am not ignoring everything you say victor I'm just not agreeing with you.

mary - I would want it to be restricted to specialist BDSM sites. Have no experience of this, but surely from what is said about BDSM these are equally accessible to men and women?

If you want to talk about how men feel about restraint then you cannot ignore Lesbian bondage, either.

It does not normalise abuse...it normalises certain sexual practices which are really not as niche as people here would like to think.

lesley there are lots of things that give out the wrong message to women. Look at the bloody Twilight books!

It's our job to educate and empower our children. These things are always going to exist, like it or not. I'd rather my daughter knew about such things and how they SHOULD be used in a consensual relationship.

I really feel that by censoring we would be taking a step backwards from the fact that the rapist needs to take full responsibility from their actions.

What about lesbian bondage? Why does that have an impact on this discussion?

And nobody has said what they think about handcuffs....surely you should all be kicking off about those too!

lesley but it's not very "specialist" is it? Maybe some of the more full-on sexual contraptions are specialist...I can see why AS wouldn't stock a set of stocks for instance! But this is not more shocking than handcuffs fluffy or not.

I see handcuffs at the edge of acceptability in a shop like AS. I see restraints such as this as specilaist as unless used very very carefully it will cause women to gag, possibly vomit and could be dangerous. I think very few women get pleasure out of forced bjs.

I DO see what your points are....I DO see that you think women should not want to be restrained as that desire (in your opinion) is due to centuries of grooming....I see that this is what you think at heart...that restraint is wrong...but I don't think it is...not if it is mutually enjoyed.

I reserve my right to be a Feminst and to get tied up and fucked if I want to.