Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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The first paragraph explains why surely

But it's not a question of passivity or strength of character.

There is no moral judgement being made about whether or not people use this as part of their own personal sex life. The discussion is about how mainstreaming individual sexual practises can result in women being more willing to try something they don't like because it is perceived as normal and therefore there is something abnormal about them if they don't.

If you like it because you genuinely like it then there is no issue here for you. If you like it because you've been convinced that you ought to like it subconsciously, that has wider implications but there's still no issue for you personally, since none of us can tell the difference and it's none of our business anyway.

However, if you don't like it all that much but you try it because you've been convinced it's normal, that's a big issue. And the more people who think they like it because of social conditioning will affect the numbers of those convinced to try it against their natural wishes.

Exactly sunshine.

I can discuss this item on MN and analyse it in a political way with other women, but that does not mean that I am immune to the normalization of a product or a practice in my personal life.

And I don't think it is snobby or elitist to be concerned that my daughters will be no more immune than I was at their age. It is standard parenting, no?

Feminists are always getting told they are snobby/elitist/etc by people - it is just another way of saying 'shut the fuck up will you with the feminism already'.

Starwisher, are you arguing then that children should be exposed to sexual material?

I think most people are going to argue from the starting point that children should not be exposed to sexual material, that is why we have licensed sex shops that under 18s can't go in, film classifications at cinemas, the watershed and so on.

Most people and the law do think it is wrong to expose children to sexual material. Are you disagreeing with that? If not, what is your issue with people thinking that children should not view this item?

"The discussion is about how mainstreaming individual sexual practises can result in women being more willing to try something they don't like because it is perceived as normal and therefore there is something abnormal about them if they don't. "

Yes but who are these women? Do you count yourself as one of these women?

Seashores no

People said 16 years apparently wonder into Ann summers

I would count 16 as still a child wouldn't you?

imnotmymum I think that's a very valid point, and of course explains why society is made up of different social groups rather than being one homogenous mass.

In a social group where men routinely access porn and it is openly talked about and discussed, for example, I suspect there will be much more pressure on women to conform or to view this BJ strap as something 'everyone does'. Whereas in a social group where porn is considered less acceptable or at least something that should be kept private, it is far less likely.

Yes I would count them as a child and so does the law.

I would count myself as one of those women, and that would have applied even more when I was a teenager.

I can't speculate on what impact it would have had on me as a child, because sexualisation of children didn't happen as much when I was growing up.

Yes but who are these women? Do you count yourself as one of these women?

Yes. Of course I count myself as a woman . I don't want this shit normalized because it affects ME.

Beachcomber

You say you were not immune? At what age? I assume we are talking 16 as that is the most quoted age.

I certainly don't feel I was pressured into using any sex toy because it was available for public consumption then or ever

Do many people feel, actually they were as a genuine question?

Starwisher - yes, I am one of those women. I have performed numerous sexual acts because I was curious and because I thought I would be different and prudish if I didn't. I thought a sign of a healthy sexuality and sexual liberation was being willing to try anything once.

Having spent some time thinking about it though, I now feel that the sign of a healthy sexuality is to be confident in what you like and to say no to anything that doesn't feel right even if that apparently makes you 'different'.

I still do things that I would consider a sign of patriarchal dominance. I am unashamed of that and will freely admit to enjoying them. Doesn't mean I don't recognise where they come from though.

beachcomber

The question is not do you count yourself as a woman! Read again

Starwisher, people do take children into Ann Summers. There are MN threads about it.

You posted this:

'1. The effects model treats children as inadequate

You are considering children not so much in terms of what they can do, as what they (apparently) cannot. Negatively defined as non-adults astrange breed whose failure to match generally middle-class adult norms must be charted and discussed.

young consumers can be seen as the inept victims of products which, whilst obviously puerile and transparent to adults, can trick children into all kinds of ill-advised behaviour.'

That would suggest you think that children don't need protection from sexual material. If you do think they need protection, why have you posted the above about children?

And that is the whole point of feminism.

It isn't about sitting on judgement on 'other women' they way you seem to think it is Starwisher.

I'm a feminist because I'm a woman and this stuff (normalization of sexualized violence, etc) affects me - because I'm in the group of people oppressed by that violence.

Sunshine

Thank you for your honest answer. Where do you think the pressure came from? Friends, partners, media or elsewhere?

I understood the question Starwisher.

Very young children need protection full stop, but surely that goes without saying

However, as they reach puberty they naturally will seek out sexual knowledge and material

Of course children need protection and guidance, but the points is I give them credit and upon discovery of said sexual material will still remain critical and active and are not passive vessels who act against their will because the media said so

Of course my sexuality is influenced by society. Of course I am one of 'these women', we all are.

If you don't mind I won't go into personal detail - I don't share information about my sex life with strangers on the internet as part of a political discussion.

In short seahorses

Do you think children. (16) are inept and easily tricked?

By the way, quit trying to imply I somehow want children to exposed to sexual images. It ridiculous and only shows you are very much misunderstanding the hypodermic model.

All of those Starwisher.

It probably didn't help that as a tomboy sort of child, most of my friendships were with boys, which meant that as a teenager I probably had more access to porn than most girls my age, although this being around 1990 and limited to the boys' abilities to borrow the porn from older male friends or relatives, the porn was pretty tame by today's standards and certainly didn't feature things like fisting, spit-roasts, gang-bangs, etc. Yet I was still a girl, and subject to the same normal desires as any other teenage girl - wanting boys to like me and find me desirable. It was fairly obvious that they saw women acting in porn as desirable so that's what my model of 'sexy' was based on, along with more mainstream stars for girls of that age such as Madonna.

It wasn't based on my family because although I was brought up in a very loving family with parents who adored and respected each other, they seemed totally asexual to me (if that makes sense) and never discussed their sex life with me.

So I based it on what I read, saw, talked about and later experienced, and in a bid to be cool, sexy and 'unforgettable' I tried things that I wouldn't countenance now. And I say that as a teenager who was probably among one of the most confident and 'successful' in my school.

We ALL are are we? Hmm...
No one wants to know explicit detail either, trust me, and I fail to see who has asked

Starwisher, the point you are now making is an entirely different one to the content of that quote. Are you going to explain why you made that quote about children?

Either you want the law relaxed and think that shops should be allowed to sell sexual material without the adult license they currently require, or you don't and think under 18's shouldn't see items like this on the high street.

Why don't you just say what it is you are arguing for?

Starwisher are you going to answer my question about why is it rude to say that women's sexuality is influenced by society?

Do you agree that accusing people of being snobbish and elitist is a personal attack?

Can you explain how we are being snobbish and elitist when we are including ourselves in the group 'women'?

Thankyou sunshine

Do you feel now, as an adult, that other women of a similar age may or may not be still more vunreable to outside influence to participating against their will?