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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Vile vile Ann Summers product

999 replies

Dillytante · 20/03/2012 22:51

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.


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OP posts:
sunshineandbooks · 23/03/2012 11:24

If media is ineffective, why do all big businesses spend billions on advertising?

You only need a (relatively small) proportion of society to be affected directly through media for a product to become self-perpetuating. The dynamic between media and society is actually very fluid and symbiotic - each feeds the other. The point with porn and BDSM is that what is considered normal in mainstream society results in business pushing the next level through, which becomes accepted and thus normal, and so on...

If you look at attitudes towards sex and power throughout history, the things people do to each other haven't changed very much at all, but the acceptability/public knowledge of various acts certainly has and that has an undeniable link to the role of business in sex.

Beachcomber · 23/03/2012 11:27

How rude.

I don't assume that I am immune to socialization (which is the concept we are talking about here - and it is a much more complex, insidious and all pervading process than the 'hypodermic needle model').

Context is actually important.

If you are going to call us snobbish and elitist for engaging in feminist analysis on a feminist discussion board, perhaps you should do it in your own words rather than through the vehicle of a quote.

What you say above to abused women is silencing and ignoring what they actually say - there are people on this thread who clearly said that their abusers used the main-streaming and normalisation of abuse in order to groom them. Certainly it is hardly a foreign concept to most feminists.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:29

Media is not ineffective by any means.

But people are still intelligent, critical and active. I certainly feel no need to engange in BDSM because its profile is raised

Is anyone prepared to say they only enganged in BDSM purely because of the media?

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 11:29

No-one is inferior to myself. What a strange idea.

Beachcomber · 23/03/2012 11:31

You'll be telling us there is no such thing as society next.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:32

And it's not rude to tell women their sexual fantasies are down to the Patriarchy beachcomber? Hmm

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:34

So if everyone is perfectly capable of making their own sexual choices free willed as you are... Whats the main point of this thread?

Beachcomber · 23/03/2012 11:41

I think you will find I said that women's sexual fantasies are influenced by patriarchy (i.e. society). I used the word influenced about 3 times. I include myself in 'women' (because I am a woman).

You are going to have to expand on why it is rude to say 'I think we women are influenced by society when it comes to our sexuality'. Why is that rude?

It is not a personal attack in the way that accusing people of elitism and snobbishness is.

Beachcomber · 23/03/2012 11:43

Oh I get you now Starwisher.

You are labouring under the misunderstanding that I think I own a magic feminist shield which allows me to escape the influence of patriarchy.

Well I don't.

HTH.

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 11:45

And I am not snobbish or elite. Did you mean to be rude?

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:49

It is elitist and snobby to think you are immune from a product availabity in a high street store but others are some how not

Unless you can prove the patriarchy has influenced every woman to a desire n already inherent then it's a bit of a null point

sunshineandbooks · 23/03/2012 11:50

At the risk of repeating what has already been said several times:

Sex is very personal and while we're having it we're very vulnerable even though we may be having a fabulous time. It's intimately tied up with our sense of self and a large part of it is subconscious. Start trying to explain in depth why you like your particular sexual fantasies for example and most people find it very hard.

Most social influence is subconscious. As a result of it, we all do things that we may actually disagree with on a rational basis. Most women get annoyed about the endless photoshopping of supermodels and celebrities and are saddened and angry about the fact that anorexia is rife in the fashion world, etc. Rationally, we all condemn it. Yet the vast majority of us who will make these arguments still worry about our weight and try to conform to social standards of beauty at the very same time we bemoan how unhelpful these practises are.

That doesn't make us lesser people. It makes us influenced by society. Because the truth is, most people suffer if they fail to follow those social norms. That's which is how society works. For every Susan Boyle out there there are many more singers with voices like hers who have failed to get anywhere because they don't have a body like Rihanna's, for example. Women suffer if they don't conform. That's proven fact. Similarly everyone decided to take what they want from the supermarket without paying, for example, there simply isn't enough police to stop it. But the reason it doesn't happen is because this would be a socially unacceptable thing to do.

Some of the posters on this thread who have argued against this strap being available in AS may actually use it themselves. It's possible to do something and enjoy it while at the same time recognising that the wider implications have harmful significance. It's no reflection on you as an individual; it's an analysis of society. It's only because sex is so personal and so rooted in our sense of who we are that people react so defensively to this idea.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:54

Sunshine I agree with much of what you say.

But some people seem to think others, yet not themselves, are somehow far more passive than reality.

That is what irks me.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 11:55

Well we aren't saying your first paragraph at all (as Beachcomber has just said).

And I don't it is that controversial to say everyone is influenced by society to a greater or lesser extent. We are just looking at the influences that are in action here and what this might mean for society in the future.

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 11:56

No-one has 'immunity' from patriarchy if they live in one. What a bizarre suggestion. Of course I don't think I'm immune. That's why I'm a feminist, to analyse its effects upon me and others, and to understand the structural inequalities that exist and affect me and others.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 11:56

That was on reply to Star's 11.49 post

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:56

But many posters said their main, and sometimes only concern was a teenage girl (child) seeing this in ann summers

imnotmymum · 23/03/2012 11:58

I have read your post several times sunshine and feel that yes society perhaps plays a part but I find personal environment and the society in which we grow up play a much larger part in what and who we are and how we view ourselves, rather than the society as a whole.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 11:58
Confused
Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:59

Linerunner

I'm not sure why you have assumed this post is so personally about you

TBH I think you only joined this thread recently and my post was not as a result of anything you have said

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 11:59

No, I didn't. I have repeated my concerns a number of times now.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 11:59

Sorry that confused face was to Star as I don't understand why that is a problem.

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 12:00

Starwisher, you did rope me in to your snobbish and elite category, be fair. At 11.49.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 12:00

Apologies I did not notice you earlier then

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 12:01

Oh, and I have posted many times on this thread, including yesterday!