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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Vile vile Ann Summers product

999 replies

Dillytante · 20/03/2012 22:51

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.


This thread is years old and inactive. If you've found this page in search of Ann Summers products that have been tried and tested by fellow Mumsnet users, you might find our guide to the best Ann Summers sex toys useful. Hope this helps! MNHQ 💐

OP posts:
Goawaybob · 22/03/2012 23:30

I just asked my DP if he thought it was erotic, poor sod could see i was on mnet on the other screen and didnt know how to answer - at first he said no, then he said, oh is it to do this - made actions, laughed and said yeah, its good. Then asked why, i told him - he made a Hmm face.

To quote " if them people on there (hes very Hmm about internet chats) think thats controlling, what do they do when they are noshing their hubbies off and he puts his hands on the back of their heads" Grin i do love my DP, hes so straight talking :)

VictorGollancz · 22/03/2012 23:33

I'm sorry, I just have to go to bed. The answer to your post is much, much longer than I have the energy for.

But Bob, MN have just launched a campaign because women aren't believed about what they say about what goes on in bedrooms. Our society is all kinds of fucked up when it comes to consent, and what women have to do to make clear they don't give it.

And Anne Summers is selling something like that as if choking on a penis isn't even worthy of a little discussion. They won't even admit that's what it's for - so how can they advocate consent issues around it? How can men and women who might not have explored their sexuality in that way learn from Anne Summers that this is something that needs to bring about conversation, trust, and consent? The only message they get is that it's 'soft and sexy'.

And that is a lie.

Anyway, goodnight.

Goawaybob · 22/03/2012 23:36

I am fully aware of the campaign thankyou very much. I find it a little patronising that you suggest that i think my views mean that i don't take that seriously Hmm That is a universe apart from this, but as i have said, i don't like the strap.

imogengladheart · 22/03/2012 23:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goawaybob · 22/03/2012 23:40

well im outa here - i shall await the headlines when the whole of mnet mobilizes and stages peaceful protests outside anne summers shops. Ah no, they wont do that because no-one l know ever lets on they are a mnetter Grin

Still reeling from being accused by stealth of not taking rape seriously Angry

VictorGollancz · 23/03/2012 06:27

I'm struggling to see how you got that from my post. I didn't even mention you in my post.

My post was criticising a society that tells women that they should expect not to be believed about their withdrawal of consent - but which tells them at the same time that having their head restricted and the possibility of choking is 'soft and sexy'.

How are women (and men) supposed to negotiate their way through this? It's a mess.

And telling anyone that choking is 'soft and sexy' is a lie. Choking is many things - and if it's something someone wants to try for the first time, them thinking that this is a benign device invented to protect their hair during a soft, sexy act is NOT going to help them have the conversation about consent and boundaries that they need to be having if they are going to engage in this.

Goawaybob · 23/03/2012 07:22

One would hope, that any couple who were engaging in the BJ strap or any other bondage games would be significantly past the consent discussion by that time.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 07:26

But it isn't advertised as bondage, it is advertised as "soft and sexy".

Goawaybob · 23/03/2012 07:27

So, in the spirit of "don't knock it til you've tried it" DP and i tried it - well, improvised.

I think DP rather liked it, but then he was getting a bj so lets face it his objectivity was slightly skewed.

I hated it - it wasn't the choking, that wasn't an issue, but within less than a minute it was hurting my neck, we wasn't doing anything too hard, we tried shifting angles, still hurt, really uncomfortable.

So aside from the moral objections, this product has some serious design flaws and for that reason - i'm out

Goawaybob · 23/03/2012 07:28

But abigail, i would still think that if people were in the stage of their relationship where they are buying any form of sex toy, "soft and sexy" or not, consent would be a given. It has nothing to do with consent.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 07:59

I am not sure why you are assuming that.

Goawaybob · 23/03/2012 08:08

Really? Christ on a bike i feel like i have entered some sort of parallel universe.

If someone is in a sexual relationship and they are buying sex toys, one would assume that they have been together a fair while and are comfortable with each other! Obviously if you were on the first night, or even a one night stand and someone produced this, there might be a question of consent, bu surely that is a totally different issue. I don't think many men would be that brave to produce a sex toy on the first night!

AliceHurled · 23/03/2012 08:15

A parallel universe that is some women's experience of abusive relationships, yes.

There are some men in this world who wear their partners down to try more and more extreme behaviour, whilst assuring them how normal it is. They can use images in porn to show them that others are doing it. They can buy sex toys to show others are doing it. Now they can also say 'look Ann summers, you walk past them on the way to work, they're just like la senza. Bought this there, let's use it'. Thus introducing deep threat whilst restricting movement as something that's pretty 'normal' rather than BDSM. Hence my points about the difference between this be available at AS rather than BDSM-r-us.

I'm pleased for you it is a parallel universe,

Goawaybob · 23/03/2012 08:19

Well, as i said, its horribly uncomfortable - i wont be buying one.

Those sort of men are going to be abusive bastards BJ strap or no BJ strap.

I'm definately leaving now, if had known this had been a thread about sexual abuse i woudlnt have made light hearted comments.

AliceHurled · 23/03/2012 08:23

Indeed. They may well be abusive whatever. So how do women, and including teenage women first exploring their sexuality, spot them? Does AS selling BDSM items as soft and about protecting their hair help with this? It does it blur boundaries and legitimate the potential abuser's persuasion?

I've been making this point for days on this thread now, as have others. It's not suddenly been dropped in a lighthearted thread.

AbigailAdams · 23/03/2012 08:26

Thank you Alice you said that much better than I could.

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 08:52

And just to say that the advert is clearly promoting the product as a way of keeping a woman's hair nice, amongst other things, which I have mentioned repeatedly on this thread as being one of my main concerns.

The second concern was that it, to me, looking at the advert, makes the woman become part of the sex toy; but it's not being promoted that way, it's being promoted as a nice-hair-day 'soft' and 'sexy' almost practical product.

Beachcomber · 23/03/2012 09:10

This was my first post on this thread - two days ago.

Notice that I talk about abuse in my very first post. Goawaybob, abuse has been a theme of this thread from the very beginning. Fair enough if you are uncomfortable with that but it isn't a new theme that has suddenly been introduced.

Beachcomber Wed 21-Mar-12 10:02:29

BDSM fetishizes abuse. That is the point of it - and that is why radical feminists have a political issue with it.

BDSM fetishizes submission and domination - the power dynamic upon which patriarchy is founded and perpetuated.

BDSM fetishizes patriarchy.

BDSM fetishizes male supremacy.

BDSM fetishizes female oppression (no matter what the sex of the sub).

The above is my political analysis of BDSM as a radical feminist. It is a political analysis and not a judgement of people's personal sex lives. You can of course be a feminist and practice BDSM - but that does not make BDSM a feminist practice or an empowering one. It remains a very patriarchal practice.

The blow job restraint is nasty - it is main-streaming choking porn and oral rape.

LineRunner · 23/03/2012 10:12

I think all the feminist analyses have been interesting.

And I really don't think they can be equated with 'moral judgements' IMHO.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:01

This thread irks me also.

Not because I have any interest in the mask or bdsm, I'm quite the opposite.
What irks me is the assumed influence this product will have on the inferior masses to yourselves.

Although it is a media term, it can be applied to this product. It is called the hypodermic needle model.

To quote;
Effects theory was developed in the 1920′s, and looks at how media texts influence those who consume them, particularly (in recent decades) how negative messages, i.e. sexual and violent content, can affect the most vulnerable of audience groups. You will have come across the ?Hypodermic Needle? model (or ?Silver Bullet? approach), where the audience is seen as passive ? ?empty vessels? who play no role in interacting with the media texts concerned. The theory states that these texts function in a one-directional communication process.

So you see we can apply this model as it looks at negative violent and sexual content. What you are doing is assuming the hypodermic needle model is actually true.

Now let's look at some criticisms of this approach, paraphrased from theory.org

  1. The effects model treats children as inadequate

You are considering children not so much in terms of what they can do, as what they (apparently) cannot. Negatively defined as non-adults astrange breed whose failure to match generally middle-class adult norms must be charted and discussed.

young consumers can be seen as the inept victims of products which, whilst obviously puerile and transparent to adults, can trick children into all kinds of ill-advised behaviour.

2.The effects model assumes superiority to the masses

Surveys typically show that whilst a certain proportion of the public feel that the media (or in this case sex toys) may cause other people to engage in antisocial behaviour, almost no-one ever says that they have been affected in that way themselves. This view is taken to extremes by researchers and campaigners whose work brings them into regular contact with the supposedly corrupting material, but who are unconcerned for their own well-being as they implicitly 'know' that the effects will only be on 'other people'. Insofar as these others are defined as children or 'unstable' individuals, their approach may seem not unreasonable; it is fair enough that such questions should be explored. Nonetheless, the idea that it is unruly 'others' who will be affected - the uneducated? the working class? - remains at the heart of the effects paradigm, and is reflected in its texts (as well, presumably, as in the researchers' overenthusiastic interpretation of weak or flawed data, as discussed above).

George Gerbner and his colleagues, for example, write about 'heavy' television viewers as if this media consumption has necessarily had the opposite effect on the weightiness of their brains. Such people are assumed to have no selectivity or critical skills, and their habits are explicitly contrasted with preferred activities

This reveals the kind of elitism and snobbishness which often seems to underpin such research.The point here is not that the content of the mass media must not be criticised, but rather that the mass audience themselves are not well served by studies which are willing to treat them as potential savages or actual fools.

So while this focus on television it is still very appropriate in this scenario as the hypodermic needle model, which some of cling to, clearly has massive flaws

I will add finally that this does not include abused women who suffered threats and pressure over period of time, because that was an individual damaging you not the prescence of items in public

AliceHurled · 23/03/2012 11:09

Nope, no inferiority of the masses. We're all part of society, we are all influenced by its norms.

InAnyOtherSoil · 23/03/2012 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InAnyOtherSoil · 23/03/2012 11:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:22

Is there anything your not offended by?
I'm saying a woman or man ground down by years of abuse may be forced into behaviours against their will they were tricked into feeling were normal.

Really, you are just either misunderstanding or being argumentive for the sake of it now. Not conductive I'm afraid.

Starwisher · 23/03/2012 11:24

Society of course influences us, but does society influence to the extent some people assume?
If you still think so, who are those people?