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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Vile vile Ann Summers product

999 replies

Dillytante · 20/03/2012 22:51

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.


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OP posts:
InAnyOtherSoil · 22/03/2012 13:35

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imnotmymum · 22/03/2012 13:40

oh ! Wow how do people get to know so much ?

InAnyOtherSoil · 22/03/2012 13:48

This reply has been deleted

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NoMoreInsomnia12 · 22/03/2012 14:32

I think we forget most teenagers aren't quite as impressionable as we might imagine. When I was 15/16 I used to read/hear about teens being pressurised to have sex before they were ready and I used to think "Oh really? Where's that happening then?" And I didn't exactly go to a convent school in the mountains or something.

doubleshotespresso · 22/03/2012 14:56

I'm not convinced that most teenagers wouldn't be effected by this. For the very reasons you state NoMoreInsomnia (Iwish I'd thought that name up btw) I am still beyond troubled at this type of product being accessible in this way.

Got no problem with those who opt for it and it's dubious pleasure factor- would just like younhg gorls to be able to breathe a little bit more and make their own choices in their own good time.

I don't think it matters if you're in a convent school, up a mountain-top or in an urban jungle- girls face enough pressures as it is today and this product does nothing to relieve that.

SinicalSanta · 22/03/2012 14:57

Teens - most people really - like to conform though. Most people don't like to stand out too much. There should be a big band of 'normal' to conform to, but it's narrowing all the time.

AliceHurled · 22/03/2012 15:22

It's not about being impressionable. It's about responding to what is normalised in the society around you. It's not a sign of impressionability or weakness to be part of a society and be influenced by it. it's a sign of being an advanced social animal. People who don't fit in are not held up as examples of awe and wonder, they're rejected by that society.

sunshineandbooks · 22/03/2012 15:28

Extremely good point Alice.

ClothesOfSand · 22/03/2012 15:34

I was very impressionable as a teenager and went along with all manner of sexual stuff because it seemed like the norm to me at the time in the relationship I was in. Now that lots of stuff is being reinforced as normal in wider society, I dread to think what more extreme stuff I would have agreed to on the basis that it didn't seem far beyond the norm. It was only getting away from more extreme stuff in later relationships that gave me the space to work out what my sexuality was.

I don't really think the arguments about parents bringing girls up to have self confidence and so on really hold much weight in an argument about sex. If you compare it to food, as a parent I can model healthy attitudes in what I eat and what I cook, in what I arrange for them to eat and cook. I can't do that with sex. There are very major limitations on how much of my children's entire knowledge of some comes from me. The attitude wider society now has to shared, public sexual expression is irresponsible. I cannot combat that as a parent because it would be unethical for me to tell my kids sex is not about ABC that you see on tv/in magazines/on the high street, it should be XYZ instead. Because nobody should be telling my kids that sex is ABC or XYZ. Sex isn't food, or clothes or music. Young people should be deciding what sex is for themselves, from their own experiences as they get older. Adults, whether that is me or big corporations, shouldn't be pushing various types of sexual expression on to young people.

The responsibility of adults, beyond some issues like safe sex, consent and emotions in relationships, isn't to tell young people about sexual expression. The responsibility of adults is to not sexually express themselves to young people, and that includes adults who make money out of sexual expression by promoting the sex industry. And it is really a bit sad to think that people can't work out how to sexually express themselves and will be somehow lacking in opportunities to do that unless somebody sells them a product. Are we really that enamoured with consumerism?

This is a bit rambly (sorry); I think perhaps it comes back to the poster who was talking about having a thread on what women's sexuality is really about. I suspect the reason why such a big deal has to be made about all kinds of role play and fantasy that becomes fetishised in sexual behaviour is because play, creativity and imagination are curtailed in adult life. Then play in sex becomes drenched in domination, because we cut off play in sex from the rest of who we are, and never have to examine that domination or why it has become such a big part of people's sex lives.

I don't believe play in sex is separate from who we are. If people were more imaginative and creative outside of sex, there would be no need for them to be sold stuff or have to be instructed by the sex industry on how to hold somebody's head in position with a glorified pair of oven gloves, because their creativity in sex would be a natural extension of their creativity and shared imagination in their relationships anyway.

sunshineandbooks · 22/03/2012 15:39
doubleshotespresso · 22/03/2012 15:42

too

AsCorruptAsWhisky · 22/03/2012 15:53

Consumerism has the potential to force norms on society or stifle them. I wouldn't want bondage and violent sex to be pushed on teenagers, but I also would rather they didn't view it negatively and as paedophilic.

Primary school children often view homosexuality as negative. They often become more tolerant in secondary school. The same needs to be applied here - except they don't know about it in primary school and become experimental in University or in their early adulthood.

There needs to be a balance.

SinicalSanta · 22/03/2012 15:55
SinicalSanta · 22/03/2012 15:56

I would like violent sex to be viewed negatively.

ClothesOfSand · 22/03/2012 16:01

Homosexuality isn't comparable to sexual expression though. It is merely a relationship with a type of person, in much the same way as having a preference for having relationship with people with curly hair is a sexual preference. Of course homosexuality has had to become more than that as a group identity as a response to prejudice and discrimination. But that doesn't make it in any way comparable to expression of sexual acts which are almost always about the act and are seldom reserved for a particular biological category of people.

There is no reason for primary school children not to know about homosexuality; it has nothing to do with tolerance.

peskimo · 22/03/2012 16:07

umm. i think its horrible and mucky but is it any different from handcuffs or other restricting s and m item?
Would it be cause more, or less outrage if the photo showed it being used (which it could) on a man, by a lady?

just askin?

Starwisher · 22/03/2012 16:10

Who are these people who are definitely being dominated in bed and not enjoying it all?

ClothesOfSand · 22/03/2012 16:12

I think it is different to handcuffs because handcuffs can be used while people do things together that don't actually require the handcuffed person to be in a position of having some physical control. You could be kissing in handcuffs and there be no real safety issues. I do think people need a degree of control when an object is in their mouth, because they could choke.

As for whether it could be used by a woman on a man, I'm not convinced it would actually serve its purpose either way around. I think it would actually be tricky to use for anybody's enjoyment, regardless of whether they were the wearer or holder. I'm perplexed by how it would actually work; your arms would end up in a strange position if you were holding it. But that might just be because I haven't got very good coordination. Nobody on here has actually used one or is offering to have a go using oven gloves, so for the moment it remains a mystery.

AbigailAdams · 22/03/2012 16:15

Jesus, some people don't want violent sex to be viewed negatively? Really? What kind of fucked up society do we live in where violent sex is OK?

Oh yes the same society where rapists are let off scot free and women aren't believed.

Starwisher · 22/03/2012 16:16

In all honesty any sex toy could be misused on either sex

ClothesOfSand · 22/03/2012 16:18

AA, from previous threads I get the impression (not from ACAW though) that people think violent sex is just pretend/fantasy/acting. Presumably they think violent sex is an elaborate naked stage fight, and that it isn't actually people being violent towards each other.

Beachcomber · 22/03/2012 16:19

Can people please stop comparing fetishes to homosexuality, it is really nasty and not a little offensive.

My primary school age children don't have any issue whatsoever about homosexuality, it is part of their family life in the same way heterosexuality is.

Sexualized violence and abuse is another matter all together.

ClothesOfSand · 22/03/2012 16:21

Starwisher, well yes, most random objects in my house could be misused. But unless you are intending to use the lace oven glove things as an actual oven glove (in which case you might get burnt) then there sole purpose is to limit somebody's head movements when they have a large object in their mouth/throat, which I would say in itself is a unsafe misuse of an object.

Although I'm inclined to think it doesn't actually work anyway.

LineRunner · 22/03/2012 16:21

I'm a bit staggered at the part of the advert where they claim it's about keeping the lady's hair nice and neat. Oh yeah right, the product is all about the woman's pleasure in maintaining her personal grooming standards, and not so a bloke can force his penis deeper into a woman's mouth?

LeBOF · 22/03/2012 16:23

It isn't for a woman to use on a man. If they could sell it as such, I'm sure they would: they'd double their money after all. The angles wouldn't work, and there isn't the same "choke porn" element which is meant to make it "sexy". So that argument is a bit of a non-starter.

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